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Obraik
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  #2272284 9-Jul-2019 11:07
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Batman:

 

People put in diesel heaters in their EVs. I'd hate to be in an EV and turn into ICE sitting in the car when it's 1 C outside.

 

I'd much rather have a small ICE that does some donkey work like heating, air conditioning, lights, and hey, charging the battery when I can't be bothered stopping for an hour here and there or when people are running away from some zombie apocalypse and mass queueing at the chargers.

 

But I won't be popular. But that's ok. Coz the vegan salad you just bought was probably flown all over the world and trucked around the country.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of an EV with a diesel heater.

 

You're thinking of an EV from a ICE vehicle perspective.  99% of the time you charge your vehicle at home and you plug it in each night when you get home.  The only time most people visit a public charger is if they're doing a road trip.


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tdgeek
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  #2272288 9-Jul-2019 11:14
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zenourn:

 

I completely agree with the need to encourage the transition to low-emission transportation but this current policy as drafted will have some negative impact.

 

The long delay between announcement and implementation is going to cause a short-term decrease in EV update as people wait for the subsidy and increase the purchase of high-emission vehicles to avoid the fee.

 

It is also going to reduce the financial benefit for many people of having an EV. With our used EV we have saved $3600 from the exemption on RUCs so far over 2 years (with more savings to come). This policy will replace that with a one-off $2600 subsidy (or $8000 if you get a < 3 year old used import), with reductions over time.

 

The $8000 if <= 3 years old and $2600 otherwise is going to cause a discontinuity and a huge demand for used imports that are three years old... will increase their auction price effectively eating up the extra subsidy level. Need to have a graded scale to solve this problem.

 

 

I think you need to ignore RUC. It was an artificial temporary bonus. Calculate the viability assuming you pay RUC. Roads dont fix themselves, its a roading tax not a fuel tax


NzBeagle
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  #2272292 9-Jul-2019 11:17
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The RUC incentive worked well in that it benefits those covering the most distance, the further you travel the better off you are. Often avenues explored in regards to Heavy fleets to benefit from different RUC combinations.

 

I think it's a shame that we're now encouraging more personal vehicles, as someone else mentioned, I'd prefer to see increasing fuel tax, perhaps a separate tax for people to identify with, where the benefits are put toward greater alternative transport methods rather than for people buying new vehicles. The government is committing to electrifying their own fleet, many businesses are taking this avenue also as they each set their own carbon targets for the future.

 

Incentives already exist for commercial fleet options, through EECA, and as vehicle options have increased, this avenue is being used more often, with multiple businesses using the fund for fleet cars and vans already, and some medium trucks.

 

As someone else pointed out, this is a proposal, feedback accordingly. Something has to be done, at least this is something.




NzBeagle
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  #2272295 9-Jul-2019 11:19
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Dingbatt: And that is an envy tax.
People who buy expensive cars can just turn around and say "it's only $3000 extra, so screw you, I'll buy a Ford F250 for my daily commute into the city".

 

I'm not sure someone shopping for an EV would then consider a F250 as one of their comparable options...


NzBeagle
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  #2272298 9-Jul-2019 11:21
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Obraik:

 

Batman:

 

People put in diesel heaters in their EVs. I'd hate to be in an EV and turn into ICE sitting in the car when it's 1 C outside.

 

I'd much rather have a small ICE that does some donkey work like heating, air conditioning, lights, and hey, charging the battery when I can't be bothered stopping for an hour here and there or when people are running away from some zombie apocalypse and mass queueing at the chargers.

 

But I won't be popular. But that's ok. Coz the vegan salad you just bought was probably flown all over the world and trucked around the country.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of an EV with a diesel heater.

 

You're thinking of an EV from a ICE vehicle perspective.  99% of the time you charge your vehicle at home and you plug it in each night when you get home.  The only time most people visit a public charger is if they're doing a road trip.

 

 

Wasn't that with a Mitsi EV? I remember seeing this a while back, was pretty well set up. I think the modern heat pump option is much better of course.


wellygary
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  #2272299 9-Jul-2019 11:22
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Obraik:

 

Batman:

 

People put in diesel heaters in their EVs. I'd hate to be in an EV and turn into ICE sitting in the car when it's 1 C outside.

 

I'd much rather have a small ICE that does some donkey work like heating, air conditioning, lights, and hey, charging the battery when I can't be bothered stopping for an hour here and there or when people are running away from some zombie apocalypse and mass queueing at the chargers.

 

But I won't be popular. But that's ok. Coz the vegan salad you just bought was probably flown all over the world and trucked around the country.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of an EV with a diesel heater..

 

 

He's referring to a Kiwi living in Finland, who thought his I-MIEV got too cold in the winters of Northern Europe...... 

 

http://kiwiev.com/installing-a-diesel-parking-heater/


Dingbatt
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  #2272308 9-Jul-2019 11:33
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NzBeagle:

Dingbatt: And that is an envy tax.
People who buy expensive cars can just turn around and say "it's only $3000 extra, so screw you, I'll buy a Ford F250 for my daily commute into the city".


I'm not sure someone shopping for an EV would then consider a F250 as one of their comparable options...



Exaggeration for effect




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996




Obraik
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  #2272309 9-Jul-2019 11:35
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NzBeagle:

 

Obraik:

 

Batman:

 

People put in diesel heaters in their EVs. I'd hate to be in an EV and turn into ICE sitting in the car when it's 1 C outside.

 

I'd much rather have a small ICE that does some donkey work like heating, air conditioning, lights, and hey, charging the battery when I can't be bothered stopping for an hour here and there or when people are running away from some zombie apocalypse and mass queueing at the chargers.

 

But I won't be popular. But that's ok. Coz the vegan salad you just bought was probably flown all over the world and trucked around the country.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard of an EV with a diesel heater.

 

You're thinking of an EV from a ICE vehicle perspective.  99% of the time you charge your vehicle at home and you plug it in each night when you get home.  The only time most people visit a public charger is if they're doing a road trip.

 

 

Wasn't that with a Mitsi EV? I remember seeing this a while back, was pretty well set up. I think the modern heat pump option is much better of course.

 

 

Right, so one person and with a primitive EV.  


wellygary
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  #2272342 9-Jul-2019 12:57
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An interesting impact is that an 8K discount on a model 3 with a 80k ceiling will make the “full self drive”a $17,500 option rather than the extra $9.500 it is now.. ouch

zyo

zyo
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  #2272343 9-Jul-2019 13:00
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I guess I will be buying the upcoming Highlander hybrid after all

:)

Dingbatt
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  #2272345 9-Jul-2019 13:07
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wellygary: An interesting impact is that an 8K discount on a model 3 with a 80k ceiling will make the “full self drive”a $17,500 option rather than the extra $9.500 it is now.. ouch


Isn't the model 3 fitted but not activated for autopilot? If so you just buy the vehicle and then pay to have it activated 'later'.

By the same token, could I get the long range standard and then upgrade it to the performance, 'later'.

Edit: Don't bother pointing out the hardware differences between the standard and the performance I am aware of them. The second comment is tongue in cheek to point out the ludicrous nature of having a cap.

Edit 2: Or maybe Tesla could sell their vehicles as "Batteries Sold Separately".




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


paulchinnz
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  #2272367 9-Jul-2019 13:16
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wellygary: An interesting impact is that an 8K discount on a model 3 with a 80k ceiling will make the “full self drive”a $17,500 option rather than the extra $9.500 it is now.. ouch

 

A lot of assumptions here e.g. that the incentive eventuates and model 3 prices (and price of enhancements) don't change in the next ~2 years.

 

 

 

Anyway, I do like the proposal's focus on emissions rather than fuel used. Hydrogen (e.g. the Hyundai Nexo) is presumably in the 0-4 category for emissions.


thecatsgoolies
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  #2272368 9-Jul-2019 13:18
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I was stunned to find out that in my last job I got 78 cents per KM for mileage and actually EV cars get around 80 c per KM claim back for mileage. I think that was the correct amount. My work mate was trying to claim back and everyone in the office laughed at him. He got the last laugh when he claimed back every Kilometer he had ever driven at work with his leaf :-)


paulchinnz
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  #2272369 9-Jul-2019 13:20
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@dingbatt FSD is distinct to Autopilot: the former is yet to fully be realised (e.g. responding to traffic lights is "coming later this year") whereas the latter is currently a standard feature for a Model 3 ordered now.


Dingbatt
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  #2272380 9-Jul-2019 13:28
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paulchinnz:

@dingbatt FSD is distinct to Autopilot: the former is yet to fully be realised (e.g. responding to traffic lights is "coming later this year") whereas the latter is currently a standard feature for a Model 3 ordered now.



But is the hardware (cameras, sonar, etc) already fitted to achieve it? If it is, or will be in the next two years, and then only need a firmware update to activate, then it still fits my argument.
As does the comment of buying a vehicle with 'some' batteries to keep it under the $80K cap, and then adding more later as an aftermarket accessory (like a towbar).

Edit: If there are ways to game the system, people will find them. Look at Canada, where to get the subsidy, Tesla had to have a vehicle under a certain value in their range. They did this, but it is unable to be configured on their Canadian website.




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


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