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paulchinnz
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  #2272386 9-Jul-2019 13:39
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Yeah fair enough @dingbatt I think you're right. Tesla's prompt to buyers to get FSD now is that it'll be more expensive to buy later.

 

Also agree with your battery comment - in the medium/long run, I expect that battery will be readily upgradeable i.e. pop into a service centre and swap it out.


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Obraik
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  #2272389 9-Jul-2019 13:49
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Dingbatt:
paulchinnz:

 

@dingbatt FSD is distinct to Autopilot: the former is yet to fully be realised (e.g. responding to traffic lights is "coming later this year") whereas the latter is currently a standard feature for a Model 3 ordered now.

 



But is the hardware (cameras, sonar, etc) already fitted to achieve it? If it is, or will be in the next two years, and then only need a firmware update to activate, then it still fits my argument.
As does the comment of buying a vehicle with 'some' batteries to keep it under the $80K cap, and then adding more later as an aftermarket accessory (like a towbar).

Edit: If there are ways to game the system, people will find them. Look at Canada, where to get the subsidy, Tesla had to have a vehicle under a certain value in their range. They did this, but it is unable to be configured on their Canadian website.

 

All the cameras required for FSD is on all Tesla's. The needed internal hardware for FSD is now included on all new Tesla's as well, however if you bought one before April then the FSD price also includes any hardware upgrades your car might require.  As mentioned, Autopilot is its own thing and now comes standard with all cars purchased.

 

Technically, yes, they could change the config of their cars to make them all under the $80k limit and then you pay to unlock them after the purchase. What they did in Canada was a bit different though as their rules would have meant no Model 3 would have qualified for a subsidy - once they made a config that qualified then ALL Model 3's qualified for the subsidy. Here in NZ at least one config qualifies and there's the potential for more if they bring in some of the other configs from the US.


Dingbatt
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  #2272405 9-Jul-2019 14:20
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Yes. My point is, any system can and will be gamed. (Not that our system is the same as Canada’s).




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996




Dingbatt
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  #2272408 9-Jul-2019 14:23
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I note that in the UK you can lease batteries for the Renault Zoe. I wonder how that would work here under the proposed scheme (i.e. <$80K) if other manufacturers did the same.




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


Obraik
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  #2272409 9-Jul-2019 14:24
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Dingbatt: Yes. My point is, any system can and will be gamed. (Not that our system is the same as Canada’s).

My point was, I think they’re less likely to do anything like that here because a) we’re a small market and that’s a bit of effort for them to go through and b) they already have a config that qualifies so their need to do it is reduced

paulchinnz
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  #2272414 9-Jul-2019 14:34
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The gaming can be done by both buyer and seller...


afe66
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  #2272543 9-Jul-2019 17:41
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Guilliman:
Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.


I thought FEV stood for Full Electric Vehicle? I could be wrong though.


My understanding is FEV are fuel powered ev. Ie burns petrol to generate electricity to drive the electric motor. All the advantages of electric power train with fast refueling at petrol station !!!!!!!!!!!👍👍👍👍👍 sarcasm on

Have no way of charging a battery by plugging into an electric power source which separates them from hybrids.

A pure electric car is just an EV or B(attery)EV.



ObidiahSlope
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  #2272550 9-Jul-2019 17:53
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I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.





Obsequious hypocrite

Obraik
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  #2272555 9-Jul-2019 18:09
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ObidiahSlope:

I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.


Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then

tdgeek
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  #2272556 9-Jul-2019 18:11
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Obraik:
ObidiahSlope:

 

I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.

 


Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then

 

Is 20% a little?


Obraik
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  #2272559 9-Jul-2019 18:12
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tdgeek:

Obraik:
ObidiahSlope:


I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.



Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then


Is 20% a little?


No, but 5% (if at full generation) is.

tdgeek
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  #2272560 9-Jul-2019 18:15
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Obraik:
tdgeek:

 

Obraik:
ObidiahSlope:

 

 

 

I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.

 

 

 


Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then

 

 

 

Is 20% a little?

 


No, but 5% (if at full generation) is.

 

Ok, I had read that we have 80% renewable power. If 80% is green and 5% is coal, what's the other 15%? Kryptonite? That's green though.....


Obraik
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  #2272562 9-Jul-2019 18:17
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tdgeek:

Obraik:
tdgeek:


Obraik:
ObidiahSlope:


 


I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.


 



Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then


 


Is 20% a little?



No, but 5% (if at full generation) is.


Ok, I had read that we have 80% renewable power. If 80% is green and 5% is coal, what's the other 15%? Kryptonite? That's green though.....


85% is renewable.

The other 10% is gas 😉

tdgeek
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  #2272569 9-Jul-2019 18:26
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Obraik:
tdgeek:

 

Obraik:
tdgeek:

 

 

 

Obraik:
ObidiahSlope:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't see the switch from petroleum to electricity being an environmental benefit if we have to import coal from Indonesia to generate the power required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Just as well very little of our power is generated from coal then

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is 20% a little?

 

 

 


No, but 5% (if at full generation) is.

 

 

 

Ok, I had read that we have 80% renewable power. If 80% is green and 5% is coal, what's the other 15%? Kryptonite? That's green though.....

 


85% is renewable.

The other 10% is gas 😉

 

COAL USE IN NEW ZEALAND

 

  • Coal produces less than 10% of New Zealand’s primary energy.

 


Obraik
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  #2272571 9-Jul-2019 18:30
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5% is less than 10%, FYI.

You’re welcome to go to Transpowers website and calculate the same 5% number from the capacity figures if you wish.

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