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Ultimate Geek

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#245371 31-Jan-2019 14:57
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I just ordered a Zero 10. Any Geeks here who already own a Zero scooter?

 

Any comments?





Rob

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  #2170819 31-Jan-2019 15:22
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Looks a bit of a beast, and that's getting up to some serious money! (https://freedpev.co.nz/products/zero-10, for those who also hadn't heard of this model).

 

But not as much as the 10X: with 2 x 800W motors, what would the maximum power output of that beast be? Just wondering if it would risk exceeding the 300W max to be considered a 'low-powered vehicle' (https://freedpev.co.nz/products/zero-10x).

 

 I'd have to get either of these scooters to my office via the lift (24 and 36kg respectively!), whereas the Mi is light enough to simply carry up four flights. But I imagine the performance (as well as speed and range) is in a different class.

 

I look forward to hearing how you find it, including whether you think it's good value for money.


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  #2170875 31-Jan-2019 15:51
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I think the wheels need to be a larger in diameter, to better cope with our awful pavements. 

 

Although, it is a bit hard to tell from a photo like that. 


 
 
 
 


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  #2170883 31-Jan-2019 15:58
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It has 10 inch tyre. Web site says so.

 

Tyres: 10 inch tyre, air front and back | the largest air tyre in the Zero range, they provide excellent comfort.


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  #2170892 31-Jan-2019 16:03
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djtOtago:

 

It has 10 inch tyre. Web site says so.

 

Tyres: 10 inch tyre, air front and back | the largest air tyre in the Zero range, they provide excellent comfort.

 

 

Indeed; the tyres on the Mi are 8", so this should offer a good improvement. Hopefully they're easier than to fix than the Mi apparently is when you get a puncture!


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  #2170897 31-Jan-2019 16:05
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Looks awesome.

Unfortunately with it's 800W motor, it falls outside the e-scooter "declaration not to be a motor vehicle", and thus will not be legal to use on footpaths, or roads (unless you are able to meet the requirements for a moped - number plate, mirrors, horn etc...)

 

https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2018-au4674


 

That said, the likes of electric skateboards, balance boards etc are also illegal, but seem common, implying low enforcement.

Personally I would like the see more small electric vehicles like this. Seems more logical than driving a 1000kg+ car everywhere.


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  #2170908 31-Jan-2019 16:24
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Scott3:

 

Looks awesome.

Unfortunately with it's 800W motor, it falls outside the e-scooter "declaration not to be a motor vehicle", and thus will not be legal to use on footpaths, or roads (unless you are able to meet the requirements for a moped - number plate, mirrors, horn etc...)

 

https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2018-au4674

 

 

How does that sit with this bit from the NZTA's 'Low powered vehicles' page, which states:

 

Please note: the maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor is not necessarily the same as the maximum power output of the e-scooter.

 

Maximum power output is determined by multiplying the battery voltage by the controller’s maximum amperage output. For example, a 600W motor and a 12V battery with a controller that has a maximum output of 21amps creates a maximum power output of 252W – so 252W is the relevant figure, even though the motor has a potential output of 600W.

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

 

My reading was the 800W is the 'maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor', not the 'maximum power output of the e-scooter'. Hence my earlier question about what the latter figure would be of the 10X, as I'm sure that's more likely to exceed the maximum allowable (2x 800w rather than 1x800w)...


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  #2170969 31-Jan-2019 18:15
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jonathan18:

 

How does that sit with this bit from the NZTA's 'Low powered vehicles' page, which states:

 

Please note: the maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor is not necessarily the same as the maximum power output of the e-scooter.

 

Maximum power output is determined by multiplying the battery voltage by the controller’s maximum amperage output. For example, a 600W motor and a 12V battery with a controller that has a maximum output of 21amps creates a maximum power output of 252W – so 252W is the relevant figure, even though the motor has a potential output of 600W.

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

 

My reading was the 800W is the 'maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor', not the 'maximum power output of the e-scooter'. Hence my earlier question about what the latter figure would be of the 10X, as I'm sure that's more likely to exceed the maximum allowable (2x 800w rather than 1x800w)...

 



The scooter in question has a 52V nominal battery pack, and a 25A controller. Using the NZTA's equation, this works out to 1300W...

 


I am really surprised with what NZTA has published above. It does not appear to backed by law.

The relevant legal clause (as published in the gazette) is:

 

"The combined maximum power output of the electric auxiliary propulsion motors does not exceed 300 Watts."

Power output of motors of any type is measured as a mechanical output, and can be measured using a dynamometer. The calculation the the NZTA has proposed assumes that the motor is 100% efficient. The reality is that brushed electric motors have 75-80% peak efficiency, and brush-less motors have 85-90% efficiency. and lower efficiencies away from optimal RPM.

 

 


 
 
 
 


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  #2171043 31-Jan-2019 22:49
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Scott3:

 

jonathan18:

 

How does that sit with this bit from the NZTA's 'Low powered vehicles' page, which states:

 

Please note: the maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor is not necessarily the same as the maximum power output of the e-scooter.

 

Maximum power output is determined by multiplying the battery voltage by the controller’s maximum amperage output. For example, a 600W motor and a 12V battery with a controller that has a maximum output of 21amps creates a maximum power output of 252W – so 252W is the relevant figure, even though the motor has a potential output of 600W.

 

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

 

My reading was the 800W is the 'maximum possible wattage stated of the electric motor', not the 'maximum power output of the e-scooter'. Hence my earlier question about what the latter figure would be of the 10X, as I'm sure that's more likely to exceed the maximum allowable (2x 800w rather than 1x800w)...

 



The scooter in question has a 52V nominal battery pack, and a 25A controller. Using the NZTA's equation, this works out to 1300W...

 


I am really surprised with what NZTA has published above. It does not appear to backed by law.

The relevant legal clause (as published in the gazette) is:

 

"The combined maximum power output of the electric auxiliary propulsion motors does not exceed 300 Watts."

Power output of motors of any type is measured as a mechanical output, and can be measured using a dynamometer. The calculation the the NZTA has proposed assumes that the motor is 100% efficient. The reality is that brushed electric motors have 75-80% peak efficiency, and brush-less motors have 85-90% efficiency. and lower efficiencies away from optimal RPM.

 

 

That's all true but the motor can't produce mechanical output power unless that amount of electricity (less losses) is supplied by the motor's controller.

 

But a pox on the person who used both amperage and wattage in the same paragraph - what an amateur (maybe that should be armature for this thread).

 

The scooter looks cool but it must be scary AF doing 40 km/h on one of these things.




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  #2171091 1-Feb-2019 06:03
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I haven't got it yet (but I am very excited already).

 

I am looking forward more to the acceleration and the ability to overcome my inertia and the head winds rather than the increased top speed.

 

I love the Xiaomi M365 when it cruises along at its top speed but it sometimes struggles to get up to it.





Rob

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  #2171112 1-Feb-2019 08:53
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@robfish - have you discussed with the retailer the power output of the Zero 10 in relation to the LTSA limits for a 'low-powered vehicle'? Interested to know the full picture here.

 

I'm aware there are e-bikes that are too powerful to be used on the road, but in my local e-bike specialist they're clearly advertised as such. (A colleague had a mountain bike that the power output could apparently be switched to be under the limit; unsure if this is a legit option or not.)




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  #2171117 1-Feb-2019 09:00
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My discussions have been with my friends and centred around laws sometimes being outdated and difficult to police.





Rob

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  #2171121 1-Feb-2019 09:06
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robfish:

 

I love the Xiaomi M365 when it cruises along at its top speed but it sometimes struggles to get up to it.

 

 

Totally. I find that the Mi's acceleration starts to feels really sluggish when the battery is not much below half. I checked it yesterday with a battery below half yesterday, and the top speed seemed not that much different - but I'm sure there's something to how quickly it gets up to that top speed.

 

I do find the idea of going 40kmh on a scooter a slightly scary thought - but that doesn't mean one needs use that speed all the time: I think there's a huge advantage having a decent amount of speed (and ideally quick acceleration) in your back pocket when you need it, as that would have certainly helped in my recent near-miss on getting bowled at a roundabout.

 

What would be key with that amount of potential speed is an easy way to set it, eg a manual cruise control switch (I find the cruise control on the Mi is difficult to set at any speed other than full-tilt), and then you'd have that reserve for when you need it to get out of trouble.


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  #2171127 1-Feb-2019 09:13
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robfish:

 

My discussions have been with my friends and centred around laws sometimes being outdated and difficult to police.

 

 

I too would certainly be keen on getting something more powerful than the Mi at some point, but personally wouldn't be comfortable dropping a couple of grand not knowing if there was the chance that it was already potentially in breach!

 

Sure, the information on the regulations may potentially be contradictory, and the ability to police them difficult, but there's always a chance that the social panic brought about by Lime scooters in Akld extends to some OTT crack-down (which will bring attention to those using e-scooters) rather than working out a sensible way forward.

 

But I'm totally happy people like you are willing to act as guinea pigs for those of us less confident!


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  #2171128 1-Feb-2019 09:18
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There are a number of great vids of the zero 10X being thrashed about and to be honest, there's no way they can be considered to be in the same class as the Mi or others, as they are just SO powerful...but I'd still hate to see them regulated off the roads, by making them classed as mopeds or similar. 

 

 

 

Personally, if I had a few grand laying about, I'd go a 10X...





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  #2182000 18-Feb-2019 14:07
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After a week delay for Toll to pick up my new Zero 10 it arrived in Christchurch this morning.

 

Wow!

 

It is so smooth and powerful. Take off from still is fantastic in all three modes. Mode 1 gets up to 24 kph with my bulk and some tools so I doubt I will need to use Level 3 around the CBD.

 

(I did toy with level 3 and easily got to 46 kph before having to slow down for lights)

 

This is a serious vehicle. I was happy to let friends try my Xiaomi M365 but not this beast.





Rob

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