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  #2351823 11-Nov-2019 18:41
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Geektastic:

 

 

 

That is about the realistic level I think you need to be at to replace petrol. Of course, the other problem is the cost of the vehicles. It will presumably be some while before Tesla and similar vehicles hit the $10,000 that many people would pay for a car these days.

 

 

Definitely an OMG post! 


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  #2351832 11-Nov-2019 18:58
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Geektastic:

 

That is about the realistic level I think you need to be at to replace petrol. Of course, the other problem is the cost of the vehicles. It will presumably be some while before Tesla and similar vehicles hit the $10,000 that many people would pay for a car these days.

 

 

Like with a BMW 3 series, maybe in 10 years you'll be seeing a second/third hand Model 3 for around $10k? 

 

However if you're talking about brand new, then that's probably never going to happen. You can't even get a new ICE vehicle for $10k today.


 
 
 
 


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  #2351841 11-Nov-2019 19:25
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Geektastic:

 

I looked it up - it's a Hyundai Nexo. Apparently, if we CAN get infrastructure, it will take 5 minutes to fill and will travel over 650km on that. Sounds more useful for a lot of drivers than electricity.

 

 

Look deeper.

The only emissions-free Hydrogen is made via electrolysis from renewable electricity source. Today, over 90% of hydrogen is made by burning methane.....and emitting CO2.

But let's say you make it with emissions-free electricity. You then also need to compress it to 700 atmospheres to store it. That takes more power. THen you either transport it, or it was made on-site.......and how fast? In California, a problem has been when several cars turn up at once, it takes 20 minutes to refill the tanks the cars then fill up from in "only 5 minutes". If transporting it to the site, then you're back into other energies and emissions.......and the H is expensive. The infrastructure isn't cheap. The hydrogen itself is highly flammable.....explosively so.

But ultimately, you're burning the H to make.....electricity to run on.

Bottom line.....you've taken electricity and wasted half of the potential by making / storing / transporting H and THEN driving the car. That entire intermediate stage involving H is an insane wate of energy to save a few minutes and reduce the efficiency of the electricity by 50%.

If people are worried about the grid not being able to power electric cars.....wait until you tell them you need TWICE as much electricity to make / store the hydrogen to run the same number of cars.

Just put the electricity into the car at home. It's 90% efficient. My new Tesla can start the day with over 500km. There won't be many days I need more than that.....and 20 minutes at a 120kw Supercharger after driving for 6 hours will give me another 280km. My 7.7kw solar system with Powerwalls will be able to charge my car "for free" at home for most of my daily driving. 

Hydrogen is a huge waste....and you can't make it home. You have to buy ALL of it. It's not cheap. If you can't get it, your car is dead. But you can always make some electricity *somehow* to charge a car with a battery.





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  #2351911 11-Nov-2019 21:53
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Obraik:

 

Geektastic:

 

That is about the realistic level I think you need to be at to replace petrol. Of course, the other problem is the cost of the vehicles. It will presumably be some while before Tesla and similar vehicles hit the $10,000 that many people would pay for a car these days.

 

 

Like with a BMW 3 series, maybe in 10 years you'll be seeing a second/third hand Model 3 for around $10k? 

 

However if you're talking about brand new, then that's probably never going to happen. You can't even get a new ICE vehicle for $10k today.

 

 

 

 

No, I was meaning second hand.

 

Not many 'ordinary Kiwis' I have come across would be buying $80,000+ new cars. So we have to wait 10 more years before a reasonable majority of buyers are able to switch although I did notice this:

 

In May 2015, Tesla started selling refurbished Model S cars in the U.S.[135] and within a month sold 1,600 cars.[136] As of July 2017, over 80 used Model S and Model X cars were for sale, with either a four-year, 50,000-mile warranty[137] or a two-year, 100,000-mile warranty for vehicles above 50,000 miles.[138][139] As of September 2015, similar programs existed in Canada,[140] Austria,[141] Belgium,[142] Denmark,[143] France,[144] Germany,[145] Britain,[146] Netherlands,[147] Norway,[148] Sweden[149] and Switzerland.[150]

 

 

 

So perhaps that could come straight here reselling older Japanese/UK Teslas?






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  #2352031 12-Nov-2019 08:37
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Linuxluver:

 

My 7.7kw solar system with Powerwalls .... 

 

 

wow, you have gone all-in on this. This is very interesting (I know we are getting off-topic) - are you able to outline the costs and ROI on this? Do you sell back to the grid at all?





BlinkyBill


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  #2352079 12-Nov-2019 10:28
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Geektastic:

 

No, I was meaning second hand.

 

Not many 'ordinary Kiwis' I have come across would be buying $80,000+ new cars. So we have to wait 10 more years before a reasonable majority of buyers are able to switch although I did notice this:

 

In May 2015, Tesla started selling refurbished Model S cars in the U.S.[135] and within a month sold 1,600 cars.[136] As of July 2017, over 80 used Model S and Model X cars were for sale, with either a four-year, 50,000-mile warranty[137] or a two-year, 100,000-mile warranty for vehicles above 50,000 miles.[138][139] As of September 2015, similar programs existed in Canada,[140] Austria,[141] Belgium,[142] Denmark,[143] France,[144] Germany,[145] Britain,[146] Netherlands,[147] Norway,[148] Sweden[149] and Switzerland.[150]

 

 

 

So perhaps that could come straight here reselling older Japanese/UK Teslas?

 

 

No, I suppose they won't be...but the Model 3 isn't exactly marketed to that. Something like a Leaf can be had now second hand for around $10k however. Any of the Model S you see on Trademe that are older than 2017 are Japanese imports. They're not exactly what I would call cheap although the Model 3 has brought them down a bit but you can still buy a new Model 3 for the same price as a 4 year old Model S. The Japanese imports have their own downsides too as they use the same charging connector as the US and thus can't be supercharged in NZ. 

 

I suspect it will take some time for Tesla's to depreciate substantially, even for the written off examples, simply because their parts are fairly valuable for hobbyists doing their own EV converts.


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  #2352146 12-Nov-2019 11:41
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BlinkyBill:

 

Linuxluver:

 

My 7.7kw solar system with Powerwalls .... 

 

 

wow, you have gone all-in on this. This is very interesting (I know we are getting off-topic) - are you able to outline the costs and ROI on this? Do you sell back to the grid at all?

 

 

Yes, it's a bit off-topic from Model 3 but very interested to learn on what your Power Usage is per month in kWh and how much is generated from your panels etc. Also the cost and number of panels and modules you have used to deploy this. I am going to seriously look at getting this as I am hitting the 1500 kwh usage a month now. 


 
 
 
 


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  #2352397 12-Nov-2019 18:04
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Obraik:

 

Geektastic:

 

No, I was meaning second hand.

 

Not many 'ordinary Kiwis' I have come across would be buying $80,000+ new cars. So we have to wait 10 more years before a reasonable majority of buyers are able to switch although I did notice this:

 

In May 2015, Tesla started selling refurbished Model S cars in the U.S.[135] and within a month sold 1,600 cars.[136] As of July 2017, over 80 used Model S and Model X cars were for sale, with either a four-year, 50,000-mile warranty[137] or a two-year, 100,000-mile warranty for vehicles above 50,000 miles.[138][139] As of September 2015, similar programs existed in Canada,[140] Austria,[141] Belgium,[142] Denmark,[143] France,[144] Germany,[145] Britain,[146] Netherlands,[147] Norway,[148] Sweden[149] and Switzerland.[150]

 

 

 

So perhaps that could come straight here reselling older Japanese/UK Teslas?

 

 

No, I suppose they won't be...but the Model 3 isn't exactly marketed to that. Something like a Leaf can be had now second hand for around $10k however. Any of the Model S you see on Trademe that are older than 2017 are Japanese imports. They're not exactly what I would call cheap although the Model 3 has brought them down a bit but you can still buy a new Model 3 for the same price as a 4 year old Model S. The Japanese imports have their own downsides too as they use the same charging connector as the US and thus can't be supercharged in NZ. 

 

I suspect it will take some time for Tesla's to depreciate substantially, even for the written off examples, simply because their parts are fairly valuable for hobbyists doing their own EV converts.

 

 

 

 

OOI, why do we have to have a special connector in NZ?






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  #2352407 12-Nov-2019 18:53
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Geektastic:

 

OOI, why do we have to have a special connector in NZ?

 

 

It's actually Japan (and the US) who have a special proprietary Tesla connector. NZ and the rest of the world uses a CCS charger.


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  #2352431 12-Nov-2019 19:53
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Obraik:

Geektastic:


OOI, why do we have to have a special connector in NZ?



It's actually Japan (and the US) who have a special proprietary Tesla connector. NZ and the rest of the world uses a CCS charger.



Again: why?





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  #2352489 12-Nov-2019 20:08
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Geektastic:
Obraik:

Geektastic:


OOI, why do we have to have a special connector in NZ?



It's actually Japan (and the US) who have a special proprietary Tesla connector. NZ and the rest of the world uses a CCS charger.



Again: why?


VHS / Beta
110V / 230V

Etc etc etc

CCS is a non proprietary standard to allow interoperability. Proprietary anythibg usually performs better but only within a proprietary ecosystem.

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  #2352495 12-Nov-2019 20:20
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Geektastic:
Obraik:

 

Geektastic:

 

 

 

OOI, why do we have to have a special connector in NZ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's actually Japan (and the US) who have a special proprietary Tesla connector. NZ and the rest of the world uses a CCS charger.

 



Again: why?

 

Probably based on the US and Japan having power based on 100v (Japan) / 120v (US/Canada) while the rest of the world has power based on 240v. This usually results in different foundations for electrical reticulation whatever the context. NZ and Australia have both followed the European standard.  





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My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


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  #2352498 12-Nov-2019 20:33
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US all have 240v available for large draw loads, and its a frequent mod to the cheap chargers to make them run on 240v to double the charge speed. Usually their panels are in garages so adding another 240v load for the car isnt hard, and they dont seem to have an aversion to putting decent sized supplies into houses like NZ does with anything more than an 80A supply resulting in absurd costs from the lines companies.





Richard rich.ms

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  #2352501 12-Nov-2019 20:36
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maxeon:

 

BlinkyBill:

 

Linuxluver:

 

My 7.7kw solar system with Powerwalls .... 

 

 

wow, you have gone all-in on this. This is very interesting (I know we are getting off-topic) - are you able to outline the costs and ROI on this? Do you sell back to the grid at all?

 

 

Yes, it's a bit off-topic from Model 3 but very interested to learn on what your Power Usage is per month in kWh and how much is generated from your panels etc. Also the cost and number of panels and modules you have used to deploy this. I am going to seriously look at getting this as I am hitting the 1500 kwh usage a month now. 

 

@BlinkyBill / @maxeon 

I have wanted to go solar for 20 years, but we always moved house (or planned to move house) and it didn't make sense as we wouldn't get the benefit of it. But now we're in a house we very deliberately bought to enable us to do this and some other projects....so the time has come. We're fairly heavy power users and plan to have two EVs, so we want to generate as much power as we can. The 7.7kw (22 x 350w LG Neon2 panels) is the max we can fit on our roof. We mainly wanted to have some level of independence without being fully off-grid. We can export any excess and get 7.5c / kWh. We're limited there by Horizon Networks limitations. It would have been handy on Sunday when the power was out for 10 hours as they did a huge line maintenance job nearby. We'll be ready next time. 

I don't see it as being a way to save money overall in a strictly transactional way. It's more a way to reduce expenses, yes, and also have the opportunity reduce our own *need* for grid power. As for cost of the system, we went premium everything...and Harrisons are doing the install and regulatory work. Total cost is $56K for install, all the panels, inverter (Fronius 8.2kw), gateways, two x Tesla Powerwall 2, hot water controller, plus some other stuff. But we're also having a new roof put on the house to set it up for the longer term and that's underway right now. 





_____________________________________________________________________
If you order a Tesla, click my referral code below to order your car and get free stuff. 

 

My Tesla referral code: https://ts.la/steve52356


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  #2352583 13-Nov-2019 07:35
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Linuxluver:

 


I have wanted to go solar for 20 years, but we always moved house (or planned to move house) and it didn't make sense as we wouldn't get the benefit of it. But now we're in a house we very deliberately bought to enable us to do this and some other projects....so the time has come. We're fairly heavy power users and plan to have two EVs, so we want to generate as much power as we can. The 7.7kw (22 x 350w LG Neon2 panels) is the max we can fit on our roof. We mainly wanted to have some level of independence without being fully off-grid. We can export any excess and get 7.5c / kWh. We're limited there by Horizon Networks limitations. It would have been handy on Sunday when the power was out for 10 hours as they did a huge line maintenance job nearby. We'll be ready next time. 

I don't see it as being a way to save money overall in a strictly transactional way. It's more a way to reduce expenses, yes, and also have the opportunity reduce our own *need* for grid power. As for cost of the system, we went premium everything...and Harrisons are doing the install and regulatory work. Total cost is $56K for install, all the panels, inverter (Fronius 8.2kw), gateways, two x Tesla Powerwall 2, hot water controller, plus some other stuff. But we're also having a new roof put on the house to set it up for the longer term and that's underway right now. 

 


that’s really interesting, good on you, and good luck.





BlinkyBill


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