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703 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2361222 27-Nov-2019 00:14
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DarthKermit:

It looks as ugly as sin. I wouldn't trust anything transport related that Elon Musk puts his name behind. The man is a complete idiot.


Why?

703 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2361226 27-Nov-2019 00:32
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Ge0rge:

While there is no doubt that towing a trailer decreases the range of my ute, it most definitely does not cut it by over half - and that's when towing it's max legal of 3500kg.

Your ute also won't perform as well as the mentioned Model X in these quoted numbers. While a trailer would be noticed on your ute, the Model X is often remarked for how the trailer is barely noticed behind it. Which makes me wonder if these tests are done "apples to apples" where the X isn't pushed beyond what its ICE equivalents can do.

Either way, the Model X and Cybertruck are very different vehicles. Where the former is a luxury vehicle with the side benefit of having some lugging capability, the Cybertruck is designed as a vehicle for lugging around things.

 
 
 
 




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  #2361227 27-Nov-2019 00:45
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With regards to towing, Recreational towing above 3.5T is vary rare in NZ as over that weight the trailer is no longer considered "light", so all sorts of trucking rules kick in (COF's, RUC for trailer, hub-meter etc). As such any tow rating over 3.5T is unlikely to be of any value to all but a very small minority in NZ.

The cyber truck will be a lot heavier than our current Utes, both empty and loaded, apparently it will weight less than a F150, but with the battery pack I bet it will be close. Heaviest non-raptor F150 kerb weight is 2413kg, heaviest raptor is 2584kg. A 1590kg payload was quoted which would put the Gross vehcile mass (GVM) for the cyber-truck (based on heaviest non raptor f150 cerb weight) at 4003kg. There is some chance the payload will be de-rated for the NZ market, to make the GVM 3499kg, as anything above this gets a 90km/h max speed limit, COF, higher RUC's, No EV subsidy etc.

Either way it is going to be heavy. Which is great for towing safety, but a hassle for licencing in NZ. a car licence in NZ tops out at 6000kg, so anybody towing over 2,000kg - 2,500kg (depending on tesla's NZ GVM) is going to need a class 2 licence.

Common NZ utes are a bit lighter, so you can tow more without triggering the licence limit . Heaviest hilux and (non raptor) ranger have a 3000kg & 3200kg GVM respectively, allowing 3000 / 2800kg of towing on a car licence.

The weakness of common utes in NZ with regards to their 3500kg rated towing capacity is they also have 6000kg Gross combined Mass (GCM). This means if you hook up a 3500kg trailer to a ranger (with curb weight of 2,271kg), you are only left with 229kg of payload for the ute itself. The tow-bar and tray lid cut into this, so realistically the vehicle has to be pretty close to empty to tow its full rating.

Fred99:

 

That's weird.  With my Dmax, with the passenger seat fully back, there's still plenty of legroom, but there's a thing about having the front seats that far back - I'm about the same height as you, and if the driver seat was fully back (and unlike most cars) my feet won't even reach the pedals.  I slide the passenger seat back as far as it goes, and as soon as my SO gets in she slides it forward - there's so much room in front, surrounded by tacky textured plastic, that it feels exposed / uncomfortable.

 

Maybe you're just plain wrong about lack of space/comfort in the current range of twin-cab utes.  I hate driving mine around town because it's so big, but on a long open-road trip it's fantastic:

 

there's tons of room.
As it's on a ladder chassis, there's very little road noise.
As it's high, there's less sense of speed / road blur.
On the highway with 4 px, it uses about 7.4l/100km.
I can chuck outboard motors etc in the back and not have to spend the trip sniffing petrol.

 

 

 

 

Mabey I'm just picky (also I have long legs for my height). I have only been in a Hilux & Amarok of the current crop of utes. Looked up a review of the D-Max and it described the back seat as "comfortable, for a ute". The reviewers for the Tesla didn't have the "for a ute" quantifier.

I'm with you on the petrol point. A few trips ago in a borrowed ute, an outboard leaked petrol in the tray. Would have been a massive issue in a SUV, but with a ute, could hose it out and leave to dry in the sun. Separate tray is great for everything from smelly shoes, to things like petrol, dive cylinders etc from a safety perspective.

Ge0rge:

While there is no doubt that towing a trailer decreases the range of my ute, it most definitely does not cut it by over half - and that's when towing it's max legal of 3500kg.


Roughly does in my suv. 8-9/100km empty on the open road, jumps up to 16L/100km towing a 24" 1.5T boat. I don't do it frequently enough for it to be a concern.

Vehicles that are more efficient to start with will see bigger percentage changes. Diesel vehicles are known to have less of a percentage change than petrol vehicles. And small displacement turbo petrol get absolutely smoked as they have to stay on the boost for much of the trip when towing heavy.

 

Fred99:

 

The lack of towing capability would be a deal-breaker for me.  I didn't realise how hopeless full EV's range is.

 

In theory it could be solved by running regenerative braking on the trailer, as every time the brakes are activated it's wasting a lot of battery charge.  Not sure how feasible that would be, motor/generators on the (braked) trailer wheels, they'd be putting out a lot of power, so either high voltage or you'd need very heavy cables, doesn't sound easy (or cheap) to achieve - especially on a boat trailer where the whole shebang would get periodically immersed in salt water.

 



Other people have covered the towing capability. As EV's go this is brilliant, but we are still at the early adopter stage. Vehicle doesn't need to suit every use case. I suggest very long range heavy towing would be a use case it is not suited for.

Regarding regen breaking, If regen in the ute is fairly strong, you wouldn't need additional regen in the trailer. Trailers over 2.5T in NZ need Direct (typically electronic) breaks, not overide breaks  (unless they have an exemption). These could be configured such that they only apply when the friction breaks on ute are used. As is the norm when towing heavy, drivers would avoid riding the breaks down hills, and instead use the engine (in this case regen) to slow / maintain speed of the rig. In an emergency frictional breaks would be used. Such breaks could be fitted to lighter trailers too (but override breaks are preferred due to low cost, simplicity and lack of integration with the tow vehicle.


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  #2361288 27-Nov-2019 08:01
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Obraik:
DarthKermit:

 

It looks as ugly as sin. I wouldn't trust anything transport related that Elon Musk puts his name behind. The man is a complete idiot.

 


Why?

 

The hyped hyperloop for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ

 

There was also the idea for moving individual cars at speed through tunnels and have them pop up via giant lifts. I could go on.


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  #2361306 27-Nov-2019 08:21
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Linuxluver:

So you regularly tow a boat 500km?

Really?

 

Given the significant land mass in the land of the free, long haul towing is common for many US truck owners.

 

If real world range drop for towing is as significant as suggested, it's difficult to see many truck owners shelling out $50k+ for the privilege of stopping every two hours on a long road trip.


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  #2361308 27-Nov-2019 08:24
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DarthKermit:

 

Obraik:
DarthKermit:

 

It looks as ugly as sin. I wouldn't trust anything transport related that Elon Musk puts his name behind. The man is a complete idiot.

 


Why?

 

The hyped hyperloop for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ

 

There was also the idea for moving individual cars at speed through tunnels and have them pop up via giant lifts. I could go on.

 

 

1. Created the worlds most popular online payment platform

 

2. Completely against fossil fuels, he revolutionises the electric car industry with something actually exciting

 

3. Built a space company that NASA was happy to deal with

 

... yea... what an idiot...


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  #2361323 27-Nov-2019 08:45
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chevrolux:

 

DarthKermit:

 

Obraik:
DarthKermit:

 

It looks as ugly as sin. I wouldn't trust anything transport related that Elon Musk puts his name behind. The man is a complete idiot.

 


Why?

 

The hyped hyperloop for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ

 

There was also the idea for moving individual cars at speed through tunnels and have them pop up via giant lifts. I could go on.

 

 

1. Created the worlds most popular online payment platform

 

2. Completely against fossil fuels, he revolutionises the electric car industry with something actually exciting

 

3. Built a space company that NASA was happy to deal with

 

... yea... what an idiot...

 

 

There is no doubt Elon is an eccentric, definitely right out there on the spectrum. As a person, he is someone I don't have much respect for; his recent 'pedo' tweets a prime example of a pretty unlikable person.

 

However, you can't deny that his eccentricity has helped give rise to some phenomenal innovation successes, so you have to give him credit for succeeding where others haven't.

 

However, his eccentricity also leaves him open to phenomenal innovation flops. And history, I suggest, will confine Cybertruck to the latter.


 
 
 
 


703 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2361398 27-Nov-2019 10:35
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DarthKermit:

 

The hyped hyperloop for one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ

 

There was also the idea for moving individual cars at speed through tunnels and have them pop up via giant lifts. I could go on.

 

 

None of which is Tesla. That all falls under "The Boring Company"

 

Tesla has done quite a bit to shake up the car industry over the last decade.


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Ultimate Geek


  #2361402 27-Nov-2019 10:41
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“The man is a complete idiot.” I think the comment, bereft of thought, indicates who the idiot is.





BlinkyBill


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  #2361431 27-Nov-2019 11:26
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Checking FUGs........





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  #2361445 27-Nov-2019 11:39
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Musk is great at thinking up fantastic ideas that aren't at all practical. The hyperloop as shown in the above video has been whittled down to just a regular car driving through a tunnel. Flashy CGI presentations aren't an indication of whether an idea will actually work. He was completely dishonest about the real cost of tunneling.

 

There's also a video of him promoting a lift in each person's garage at home, taking their car down into a tunnel and joining an underground network of tunnels to whisk the car away to the destination. That's crazy. The reason why projects like the Gotthard Base Tunnel (which cost over $10 billion) are economic is because millions of people are using them, thereby spreading the cost over a large user base. One tunnel per household would never make economic sense! Another cool-sounding idea with no practical or economic benefit.

 

He's talking about colonies on Mars in the video also. Why not just stick with one idea and try to make it work Elon?


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Ultimate Geek


  #2361478 27-Nov-2019 12:40
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DarthKermit:

 

 

Musk is great at thinking up fantastic ideas that aren't at all practical. The hyperloop as shown in the above video has been whittled down to just a regular car driving through a tunnel. Flashy CGI presentations aren't an indication of whether an idea will actually work. He was completely dishonest about the real cost of tunneling.

 

There's also a video of him promoting a lift in each person's garage at home, taking their car down into a tunnel and joining an underground network of tunnels to whisk the car away to the destination. That's crazy. The reason why projects like the Gotthard Base Tunnel (which cost over $10 billion) are economic is because millions of people are using them, thereby spreading the cost over a large user base. One tunnel per household would never make economic sense! Another cool-sounding idea with no practical or economic benefit.

 

He's talking about colonies on Mars in the video also. Why not just stick with one idea and try to make it work Elon?

 

 

None of this is related to the topic of Tesla or specifically, the Cybertruck. Tesla is arguably rather successful.

 

Elon's ultimate goal is to disrupt the status quo on how we do things. Tesla is part of that and changing the medium you use to get from A to B is another. Some of those ideas are going to be pretty "crazy" and may even come to nothing but that doesn't make him an idiot. A lot of stuff we take for granted today would have seemed crazy at the time.


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  #2361485 27-Nov-2019 12:51
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Obraik:

 

A lot of stuff we take for granted today would have seemed crazy at the time.

 

 

I'm picking the Cybertruck will remain crazy for all time.


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  #2361533 27-Nov-2019 14:27
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Looks like a cross between a DeLorean and a mars rover.  I kind of like how it looks.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how practical the stainless body is.  Stainless marks easily and in response to vibration it can "work-harden" and becomes brittle.

 

 

 

I'd be interested to know what the range is towing 1,500 - 2,000kg.  Currently 250miles (EPA est.) for the base model, unladen.





Mike

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Ultimate Geek


  #2362271 28-Nov-2019 12:07
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DarthKermit:

 

He's talking about colonies on Mars in the video also. Why not just stick with one idea and try to make it work Elon?

 

 

How many friends do you have that are entrepreneurs?

 

 

I'm guessing zero. Pretty easy to tell since you're quick to criticise and cut down someone down for trying. Musk uses resources from one successful venture to fund another. That's what serial entrepreneurs do. They try wild things. They're bold. They have to be. That's why they sometimes do and say stupid stuff. Comes with the territory of leadership.

 

 

People with your attitude keep the world still. You opinions are borderline regressive.




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