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blackjack17
1641 posts

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  #2897087 5-Apr-2022 09:57
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1101:

 

As for making things safer for pedestrians .... the biggest risk for pedestrians is their behavior.
Its the NZ way to try & dodge your way across busy streets , rather than walk literally 1 minute to the ped crossing (Ive done this myself). Fix that if you want roads safer for
pedestrians .
Ive seen an elderly couple try and push a pram (with baby in) across a VERY busy street in peak traffic, because they were too lazy to walk to the pedestrian crossing .
The safer for pedestrians argument doesnt stand up to real life .

 

30kmh around schools, yes, good idea. But it needs to be policed and enforced. Otherwise its ignored .

 

 

Once again the penalty for a mistake/carelessness/stupidity should not be death which is likely to be if you get hit by a car at 50km/hr plus.

 

Yes enforcement is an issue but it is a separate issue, just like cell phone use/red light running etc.  Just because it isn't enforced doesn't mean the law shouldn't be there.





 
 
 

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Deamo
159 posts

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  #2897107 5-Apr-2022 10:33

1101:

 

[snip] because they were too lazy to walk to the pedestrian crossing .

 

 

As much as it may frustrate or anger you, a pedestrians decision to no use a designated crossing has zilch to do with laziness. It will be a combination of time saving, perceived risk (and ability to mitigate it) & habit.

 

 


Geektastic
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  #2897119 5-Apr-2022 10:50
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Senecio:

If you look at any hypermiling forum I think the sweet spot is around 40-50km/hr for most cars provides the best efficiency.



So the NZTA/local council are actually increasing our climate change problem?







tripper1000
1556 posts

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  #2897167 5-Apr-2022 12:12
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If a car is doing 0 kph it can not cause injuries. You seen the ad's - the faster the speed, the worse the crash.

 

Speed will continue to be reduced over time until it gets to zero kph.

 

The other options are to get stricter on licensing, (re)testing, education, enforcement and vehicle safety standards none of which A.T. controls. Their only other option is to improve road quality, which is expensive.

 

The practicality of travelling by car in Auckland isn't a factor at all. You can also see this in the deletion of free left turns, and enthusiastic installation of traffic lights, and over use of red left/right arrows (the latter two are counter productive to safety because they greatly contributing to the epidemic of red-light running - ordinary people can justify red light running to their conscience when there is no opposing traffic, making red lights unnecessary or purely an electronic version of a speed bump).

 

At the end of the day A.T. make no secrete that they would prefer everyone travels by public transport, so making driving miserably slow is a "good" thing. 


antonknee
1133 posts

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  #2897182 5-Apr-2022 13:06
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In this thread:

 

  • my concerns are more important than other people's, so I don't like the proposed limit 
  • I haven't seen a car accident outside my house, therefore there's no need for a speed limit to change
  • people can't get up to 50km/h anyway so why change it (but then we also have complaints about the exact opposite concept - do you want the speed limit to appropriately match the road or not)
  • concern trolling about increased emissions when we're talking less than a sparrow's fart of CO2
  • concern trolling about a hypothetical tradesperson who in theory may have to spend 10 extra seconds driving on some road
  • failure to see the big picture - we are in the midst of changing from an overwhelmingly car dominated city to one in which people have transport choice. Lower speed limits are both part of and an enabler for this
  • failure to understand speed limits don't operate in isolation
  • failure to understand the political and practical reality in which AT operate
  • failure to understand that you shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good

Some of this comes down to poor communication from AT and some of this comes down to people are the centre of their own universe. 

 

To be clear - I don't think AT are perfect, I do think there will be isolated examples where they got it wrong, I do think we are sometimes too reliant on speed limits (see point 7 & 8).


Batman
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  #2897209 5-Apr-2022 14:35
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i think the issue is attitude.

 

people in this country will not give way to anybody let alone watching out for pedestrians, and on social media bravely post that they want to kill cyclists.

 

as a cyclist every day i have come across drivers who i feel genuinely want to kill me (cyclist).

 

i believe these people have an attitude of "i want to drive the way i want and you ain't gonna slow me down i need to get through this tarmac when i want to get through this tarmac".

 

no drop in speed limit is going to change attitudes.

 

we are lowering the collision speed, not the driver attitude.

 

we are expecting to get collisions, just at lower speeds.

 

SMH

 

why is everyone like that? 

 

i say everyone i don't mean everybody but that this group of drivers could come from anywhere - it's not who they are, skin colour, what brand car/type of vehicle they drive, they all share the same behaviour. 

 

is it the way we are brought up? think about ourselves only?


Kyanar
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  #2897224 5-Apr-2022 15:26
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insane:

 

Seems bizarre they they are actively prioritising school areas where safety measures are already in place or self-policed. Feels like they are going for the low hanging fruit to tick a box and meet their target rather than improving safety where there aren't controls in place or where self-policing is poor.

 

 

I would suggest what that means is that they intend to prioritise sticking up a (30) sign in those areas where the majority of drivers already go that speed or the road engineering forces it so that they can call those done (low hanging fruit), while they work on engineering measures on roads where people do not already go that speed because those will take longer and cost more. It actually makes sense to implement the 50 (example) places that will take them 20 minutes each ahead of the ones that will require a whole project. It meets the safety outcomes faster since if most people self-police or are forced into it by engineering, that means there's still a minority of people that don't self police or just use their Ford Ranger lift kit to fly straight over the traffic calming islands, and this gives police the power they need to pull those people up. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

 

 

TinyTim:

 

My son got his restricted licence a year or so ago, and one of the most confusing things about learning to drive for him was speed limits - they never seemed to make sense. Roads that are 30 km/hr should look like roads that are 30; 50km/hr roads should look like 50km/hr roads (etc). Then people will drive at that speed, even if they miss seeing the speed sign or the red strip of paint on the road. (Yes, this is hard to retrofit but we still make 30km/hr roads that look like 50km/hr roads.)

 

A great example are these new streets in Richmond: https://goo.gl/maps/LznS4fh4maj8BJaL6. (They might be private streets rather than council-built which would explain why it's so well done.)

 

Those are certainly privately constructed roads. Given there appears to be no speed sign at all, I'd take a guess those are 50km/hr limits being the default in New Zealand. Though based on the width of the road I'd call that inadvisable and suggest they should be 40km/hr roads because people parking on-street are going to basically make those one way. What exactly is wrong with those though? I'm actually quite interested in the reasoning.

 

I do agree with you on roads not looking like they're designed to their limits. This video is a very interesting watch regarding that phenomenon:

 

The Ugly, Dangerous, and Inefficient Stroads found all over the US & Canada [ST05] - YouTube

 

 




Handle9
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  #2897273 5-Apr-2022 18:12
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antonknee:

 

In this thread:

 

  • my concerns are more important than other people's, so I don't like the proposed limit 
  • I haven't seen a car accident outside my house, therefore there's no need for a speed limit to change
  • people can't get up to 50km/h anyway so why change it (but then we also have complaints about the exact opposite concept - do you want the speed limit to appropriately match the road or not)
  • concern trolling about increased emissions when we're talking less than a sparrow's fart of CO2
  • concern trolling about a hypothetical tradesperson who in theory may have to spend 10 extra seconds driving on some road
  • failure to see the big picture - we are in the midst of changing from an overwhelmingly car dominated city to one in which people have transport choice. Lower speed limits are both part of and an enabler for this
  • failure to understand speed limits don't operate in isolation
  • failure to understand the political and practical reality in which AT operate
  • failure to understand that you shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good

Some of this comes down to poor communication from AT and some of this comes down to people are the centre of their own universe. 

 

To be clear - I don't think AT are perfect, I do think there will be isolated examples where they got it wrong, I do think we are sometimes too reliant on speed limits (see point 7 & 8).

 

 

These threads always go the same way. They are pretty pointless.


alasta
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  #2897279 5-Apr-2022 18:40
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As a pedestrian I often have to step into traffic lanes because some self entitled motorist thinks they have the right to use the footpath as a parking facility.

 

The people who do that are probably the same macho petrolheads who are vocally objecting to making a small sacrifice in order to keep pedestrians safe. 


blackjack17
1641 posts

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  #2897284 5-Apr-2022 19:05
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Handle9:

 

These threads always go the same way. They are pretty pointless.

 

 

I would hope that this thread has at least informed some that despite what some news articles and people are saying, AT is not talking about making large areas of Auckland 30km/hr, and that they are actively targeting areas that are unsafe to travel at higher speeds, or areas that have large numbers of foot traffic (i.e. schools) 





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