Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1418670 2-Nov-2015 11:45

lchiu7: If you want to see a slightly critical view of the refereeing (from a POM no less) check this out.

https://youtu.be/0FW1NASSCxI

I apologise for the lack of sophistication in the capture but I don't know of any easy way to capture the video streams from the ITV player which I presume uses Flash. But it has specific patches to stop you from skipping ads so a normal capture program doesn't work easily.

I had never noticed the leg action from Whitelock mentioned before but clearly this ex rugby player felt it was worthy of comment! And on a similar note, what about the high tackles against the AB's that were not penalised at all?

But his main point is incontrovertible - the right team won and his other comment about on another day who know what the result would have been? If you pursue that line then on another day Ben Smith might not have done that high tackle and so the Australians would not have had the opportunity to score 2 tries against 14 men.

That pass was not forward. You can clearly see it come out the back of NMS hands. Yes it travelled forward, but the laws of physics means that unless its thrown backward at equal or greater speed than its speed travelling forward (relative velocity) it will always go physically forward. In conclusion the ONLY way to judge a forward pass is by whether it left the hands backwards or not. How these commentators can still not get this over explained concept is beyond me. Yes it looks bad because the balls relative velocity continues, while NMS is stopped in his tracks...

Not sure that Whitlock even touched Mitchell (McCaws hip scandal last week), the balls movement from right to left meant he was unable to get to it so flailed trying to change direction. Nothing in it.

Agreed also the head high call as there have been a few going the other way that have not been mentioned in the video, thats life.

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#1418673 2-Nov-2015 11:48

Kingy: Here we go. Stats updated and I also added the opposite. Can see last nights game skewed the results a bit for this year. We don't have a positive anymore.

Being a thick on this but could you please clarify - does "yellows for" mean yellows received against ABs or yellows in favour of the ABs I.e. received by the other team?

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#1418863 2-Nov-2015 14:38

So NMS Breakout player of the year, yup probably close to fair enough. DC Player of the year? Hmm not entirely sure I'd agree, though he was in contention and it denied Pocock which is a happy day. AB's for team of the year, no question on that, but SH loses to Michael Chieka for Coach of the year? Outrageous.

Cheika IS a good coach, he has improved the Wallabies a fair amount (though personally I see that as more a consequence of bringing back the senior players from when Australia was a much better side and less to do with his "amazing" coaching.

I'll be curious to see how Australia do once Giteau, Mitchell and co re-retire.

But surely if your team, and 2 of your players take out awards for best in class, you win a world cup for the first time away from home, back to back against the team who's coach wins, something is wrong?

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#1418869 2-Nov-2015 14:47

networkn: So NMS Breakout player of the year, yup probably close to fair enough. DC Player of the year? Hmm not entirely sure I'd agree, though he was in contention and it denied Pocock which is a happy day. AB's for team of the year, no question on that, but SH loses to Michael Chieka for Coach of the year? Outrageous.

Cheika IS a good coach, he has improved the Wallabies a fair amount (though personally I see that as more a consequence of bringing back the senior players from when Australia was a much better side and less to do with his "amazing" coaching.

I'll be curious to see how Australia do once Giteau, Mitchell and co re-retire.

But surely if your team, and 2 of your players take out awards for best in class, you win a world cup for the first time away from home, back to back against the team who's coach wins, something is wrong?

I agree entirely.

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#1418873 2-Nov-2015 14:53

The best thing for me about winning this world cup, the overwhelming feeling I got after the win, was I was so happy to see Richie with an honest to good MASSIVE, truly happy smile on his face. With the exception of Steve Hansen/Graham Henry, no-one else in NZ probably feels more pressure, and is more stoic and focused than that guy.

To see him TRULY let loose, was an OUTSTANDING moment. No-one deserves it more. I will remember that for a LONG time. Even my 6 year old said, "look dad Richie McCaw looks really happy!"

Secondly, how truly happy did DC look. He looked as relaxed and happy as I have seen him in recent times. I really got a sense he had struggled with his career recently more than many of us likely truly understood. What an outstanding outcome for him as well.

Both guys look and sound like the weight of the world has come off their shoulders.

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#1418878 2-Nov-2015 15:01

Anyone know where I might be able to get 2015 embroidered on my supporters jersey in the same gold that is used for the 2011 and 1987. I am in Auckland.

I want it back in time to head to Australia :)

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#1418921 2-Nov-2015 15:47

networkn: The best thing for me about winning this world cup, the overwhelming feeling I got after the win, was I was so happy to see Richie with an honest to good MASSIVE, truly happy smile on his face. With the exception of Steve Hansen/Graham Henry, no-one else in NZ probably feels more pressure, and is more stoic and focused than that guy.

To see him TRULY let loose, was an OUTSTANDING moment. No-one deserves it more. I will remember that for a LONG time. Even my 6 year old said, "look dad Richie McCaw looks really happy!"

Secondly, how truly happy did DC look. He looked as relaxed and happy as I have seen him in recent times. I really got a sense he had struggled with his career recently more than many of us likely truly understood. What an outstanding outcome for him as well.

Both guys look and sound like the weight of the world has come off their shoulders.

Not sure about what you say about nobody 'feeling more pressure'. Pressure is all in the mind, how you perceive it. If these guys felt the weight of expectation as pressure, they would not perform in key moments.

If you listen to what the guys say, you can see they don't feel the pressure in the same way a lot of people do. You can see/hear what I assume is the work of Gilbert Enoka (the mental skills guy) in how most players talk when interviewed. They talk about focusing on now, about being excited to have the opportunity - not getting ahead of themselves. Doing what they need to do to prepare well. They stay focused on process and are not concerned about outcome ('that will take care of itself'). SH says worry is a wasted emotion. You plan and do what you can then go out and have fun.

There was also a lot of talking the past week about players 'doing their jobs/what is expected of them' and about focusing on each moment and just doing the next thing you need to do to the best of your ability. In my view all of these strategies for ensuring you don't feel pressure.

I think you are seeing is players that are happy and have a great deal of personal satisfaction from what they have accomplished, and rightly so.

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#1418962 2-Nov-2015 16:22

Not sure about what you say about nobody 'feeling more pressure'. Pressure is all in the mind, how you perceive it. If these guys felt the weight of expectation as pressure, they would not perform in key moments.

Disagree. Everyone feels pressure. Pressure can either make dust, or diamonds. Enoka helps them make diamonds, but the pressure still exists. How many wins has Richie had, and how many have you seen him truly relaxed, truly happy, like this win? He even said as much, and specifically mentioned 2011 and the difference.

If you listen to what the guys say, you can see they don't feel the pressure in the same way a lot of people do. You can see/hear what I assume is the work of Gilbert Enoka (the mental skills guy) in how most players talk when interviewed. They talk about focusing on now, about being excited to have the opportunity - not getting ahead of themselves. Doing what they need to do to prepare well. They stay focused on process and are not concerned about outcome ('that will take care of itself'). SH says worry is a wasted emotion. You plan and do what you can then go out and have fun.

Lots of sportsmen and women say that, doesn't mean it works like that everytime. No way can you claim RM and SH etc, don't know what happens if they lose at a World Cup? The whole country nearly unravelled (Stupidly) over a loss to the Wallabies this year. You'd think they had murdered babies!

There was also a lot of talking the past week about players 'doing their jobs/what is expected of them' and about focusing on each moment and just doing the next thing you need to do to the best of your ability. In my view all of these strategies for ensuring you don't feel pressure.

I believe you are confusing not feeling it, to not allowing it to overwhelm you (managing it). Pressure can be good. It helps me work faster, be more accurate.

I think you are seeing is players that are happy and have a great deal of personal satisfaction from what they have accomplished, and rightly so.

I don't dispute that, I am saying that it hasn't occurred to that same degree in the past, and it's nice to see Richie able to celebrate without another objective to focus on.

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#1418969 2-Nov-2015 16:24

Awesome, just awesome.

This is my favourite RWC so far.

The ABs dominated when it mattered.
We won (against Aussie no less).
Japans and Scotland surprised.
Argentina really stepped up.
England crushingly and bitterly humiliated as hosts (almost the best bit).

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#1419001 2-Nov-2015 16:55

eracode:
Kingy: Here we go. Stats updated and I also added the opposite. Can see last nights game skewed the results a bit for this year. We don't have a positive anymore.

Being a thick on this but could you please clarify - does "yellows for" mean yellows received against ABs or yellows in favour of the ABs I.e. received by the other team?

Not thick at all mate, I probably should've clarified a bit better. The Yellows for (ie the left block) is when the ABs are yellow carded and down a man. Right block is when the opposing team has a yellow card and the ABs are up a man.

So if we just stick to the TOTAL row, in the last 5 years the ABs have scored 52 points when playing with 14, and had 68 scored against. Leaving a +/- of -16. When playing against 14 men they take advantage and have scored 183 while only conceding 22. Margin of 161.

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#1419042 2-Nov-2015 17:40

networkn:

Cheika IS a good coach, he has improved the Wallabies a fair amount (though personally I see that as more a consequence of bringing back the senior players from when Australia was a much better side and less to do with his "amazing" coaching.

I'll be curious to see how Australia do once Giteau, Mitchell and co re-retire.

Seriously? Bringing a second 5/8 and a backup winger (Rob Horne was their starting wing until he got injured) from overseas turns around a team? Australia have been a rabble, going back to when Deans was coaching. Cheika has made a huge difference. He went in with a plan and his side played for him with heart.

You can make the argument that Hansen should have won the award (which I agree with) but to denigrate what Cheika has done this year is really a bit silly. It's not like it's a one off, he also won a super rugby title after taking over a side which finished 11th the year before he took over.

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#1419060 2-Nov-2015 18:12

Handle9:
networkn:

Cheika IS a good coach, he has improved the Wallabies a fair amount (though personally I see that as more a consequence of bringing back the senior players from when Australia was a much better side and less to do with his "amazing" coaching.

I'll be curious to see how Australia do once Giteau, Mitchell and co re-retire.

Seriously? Bringing a second 5/8 and a backup winger (Rob Horne was their starting wing until he got injured) from overseas turns around a team? Australia have been a rabble, going back to when Deans was coaching. Cheika has made a huge difference. He went in with a plan and his side played for him with heart.

You can make the argument that Hansen should have won the award (which I agree with) but to denigrate what Cheika has done this year is really a bit silly. It's not like it's a one off, he also won a super rugby title after taking over a side which finished 11th the year before he took over.

I am not sure part of "Cheika IS a good coach" wasn't clear to you from my comments, however I think you have mistaken what I think those senior players actually did. I believe they were brought in to right the ongoing attitude problems that have been present at the Wallabies for a long time. I don't think they were bought in mainly for their skill set, though I was impressed with how those older players played.

Cheika did turn around two teams in 18 months, and that is impressive (though to be fair their attitude was the biggest problem in my opinion). He also won the Rugby Championship which was fairly impressive comparatively.

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#1419081 2-Nov-2015 18:43

networkn:
Handle9:
networkn:

Cheika IS a good coach, he has improved the Wallabies a fair amount (though personally I see that as more a consequence of bringing back the senior players from when Australia was a much better side and less to do with his "amazing" coaching.

I'll be curious to see how Australia do once Giteau, Mitchell and co re-retire.

Seriously? Bringing a second 5/8 and a backup winger (Rob Horne was their starting wing until he got injured) from overseas turns around a team? Australia have been a rabble, going back to when Deans was coaching. Cheika has made a huge difference. He went in with a plan and his side played for him with heart.

You can make the argument that Hansen should have won the award (which I agree with) but to denigrate what Cheika has done this year is really a bit silly. It's not like it's a one off, he also won a super rugby title after taking over a side which finished 11th the year before he took over.

I am not sure part of "Cheika IS a good coach" wasn't clear to you from my comments, however I think you have mistaken what I think those senior players actually did. I believe they were brought in to right the ongoing attitude problems that have been present at the Wallabies for a long time. I don't think they were bought in mainly for their skill set, though I was impressed with how those older players played.

Cheika did turn around two teams in 18 months, and that is impressive (though to be fair their attitude was the biggest problem in my opinion). He also won the Rugby Championship which was fairly impressive comparatively.

The sarcastic "amazing" coaching reference and the "fair amount" reference is why I found your comments pretty condescending. At that level 90% of the coaches role is selecting the right players, helping them build a culture and getting them prepared. The turn around in attitude is Cheikas greatest achievement and the reason for their improvement in their performance.

Incidentally I spent the last week in Sydney and while I took plenty of good natured grief from Australians their praise for our team was without reservation. I find New Zealanders inability to praise Australians pretty sad (I'm not accusing you of this, it's just an observation of something I find incredibly sad and immature in our country).

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#1419082 2-Nov-2015 18:47

Coach of the year is closer than player of the year.

DC was player of five good games? Definitely not all year!

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#1419196 2-Nov-2015 19:36

joker97: Coach of the year is closer than player of the year.

DC was player of five good games? Definitely not all year!

The way I see it. We played 12 games this year. 4 of those were against minnows (Samoa, Namibia, Georgia, and Tonga). Let's take those out, even though Tonga was one of his good games. He didn't play against SA in TRC so that can't count. So 5 out of those 12 games can get taken away. Out of the 7 remaining he had 1 very average game against Aussie (the one we lost). The remaining 6 he was very much on point. If you include his performance against Tonga, then that's 7 strong games.

Not to mention that 3 of those games included the quarter-final, semi-final and final of a world cup (the latter 2 being the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the world). Topping off the MOTM performance in the final. Can't argue with it really.

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