Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Mad Scientist
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#1541026 24-Apr-2016 10:24

itxtme:
joker97:

We had this discussion on page 31. No control No downward pressure needed.

Just grounding. Which was what happened.

Yep you are correct, although it would be interesting to know how the laws of physics in terms of gravity and or placing downwards, while the ball is held (and it must be held for this rule to be in play) do not need to occur. IE. How can you ever hold onto the ball and place it down without providing some amount of downward pressure? Its an oxymoron.

Now the next question should be did the Highlanders grip on that ball constitute holding, which is a requirement of 22.1a?

It's to allow a try when the ball is tucked in the arm for example. No downward pressure required, just the body on the ground.

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#1541056 24-Apr-2016 11:06

Barratt showed some magical running and passing. Lucky for the Chiefs he left his kicking boots in the changing room.

I am sure many will disagree, tis the nature of things, but for me, if I was picking for 10 today, I'd rather have Barrett, his running game last night surpassed that of Cruden (Who's running game since he got back has been pretty good).

They need to fix the kicking and quick, but I suspect they will/can. (Though Cruden still isn't really kicking anyways so hard to compare).

The problem looming for AB's is what they do for kickers. When they had Slade/Barrett for Full back, they had a reasonable kicker backup. Cruden can't play any other position.

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#1541074 24-Apr-2016 11:28

There is this thing called D Mckenzie. That alone could make Steve defend his cup.

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#1541078 24-Apr-2016 11:45

joker97: There is this thing called D Mckenzie. That alone could make Steve defend his cup.

LOL I love the propensity of NZ Rugby fans to attach themselves to the next "good thing".

It's possible he makes the AB's but I'd also be a little surprised without him bulking up a bit. They already have NMS who is blooded, and I suspect to some degree DM is in a golden period right now, like NMS was,

where teams haven't quite worked out how to contain him. I expect that to be somewhat neutralized within the next 4-6 weeks. He is very fast, but that can be countered by not giving him space.

tukapa1

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#1541101 24-Apr-2016 12:20

I believe that Barrett is the best choice 1st five at the moment.

Kicking is a concern all round as far as the first fives in contention go.

I believe they will go with Cruden as Barrett offers more off the bench - covers fullback and offers more in the way of attack which the AB's capitalise on when the opposition defence is tired.

Sopoaga doesn't offer enough in the way of dynamic play. He's solid but I don't believe solid is enough.

McKenzie is not a first five, his game relies on having space from fullback.

This will end up being a bit long, but I've attached the stats for each of the four players mentioned above up to, and including, this weekends round.

Beauden Barrett

Tries 5

Points 100

Carries 59

Metres 445

Clean breaks 11

Defenders beaten 18

Offloads 6

Try Assists 4

Passes 241

Open play kicks 66

Lineout catches 0

Tackles 40

Missed tackles 11

Tackle success 78.4%

Turnovers conceded 13

Yellow cards 0

Red cards 0

Penalty goals 10

Missed penalty goals 10

Penalty goal success 50%

Conversions 21

Missed conversions 10

Conversion success 67.7%

Drop goals 1

Kicking success 60.8%

Aaron Cruden

Tries 2

Points 13

Carries 55

Metres 329

Clean breaks 13

Defenders beaten 8

Offloads 9

Try Assists 9

Passes 152

Open play kicks 36

Lineout catches 4

Tackles 53

Missed tackles 15

Tackle success 77.9%

Turnovers conceded 8

Yellow cards 0

Red cards 0

Penalty goals 1

Missed penalty goals 0

Penalty goal success 100%

Conversions 0

Missed conversions 3

Conversion success 0%

Drop goals 0

Kicking success 25%

Lima Sopoaga

Tries 1

Points 78

Carries 45

Metres 255

Clean breaks 5

Defenders beaten 8

Offloads 3

Try Assists 3

Passes 107

Open play kicks 50

Lineout catches 2

Tackles 28

Missed tackles 8

Tackle success 77.8%

Turnovers conceded 15

Yellow cards 0

Red cards 0

Penalty goals 13

Missed penalty goals 4

Penalty goal success 76.5%

Conversions 14

Missed conversions 4

Conversion success 77.8%

Drop goals 2

Kicking success 77.1%

Damian McKenzie

Tries 7

Points 120

Carries 105

Metres 621

Clean breaks 15

Defenders beaten 36

Offloads 14

Try Assists 5

Passes 132

Open play kicks 26

Lineout catches 8

Tackles 20

Missed tackles 10

Tackle success 66.7%

Turnovers conceded 15

Yellow cards 0

Red cards 0

Penalty goals 11

Missed penalty goals 3

Penalty goal success 78.6%

Conversions 26

Missed conversions 12

Conversion success 68.4%

Drop goals 0

Kicking success 71.2%

Handle9

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#1541172 24-Apr-2016 14:51

networkn:

joker97: There is this thing called D Mckenzie. That alone could make Steve defend his cup.

LOL I love the propensity of NZ Rugby fans to attach themselves to the next "good thing".

It's possible he makes the AB's but I'd also be a little surprised without him bulking up a bit. They already have NMS who is blooded, and I suspect to some degree DM is in a golden period right now, like NMS was,

where teams haven't quite worked out how to contain him. I expect that to be somewhat neutralized within the next 4-6 weeks. He is very fast, but that can be countered by not giving him space.

The flip side is what is the down side of picking him? It's year 1 of the cycle and this is the ideal time to choose young players, it lets you find out who's ready and who's not. If it's proven he isn't he's got plenty of time to fix what is broken. What is proven is that he's in exceptional form at super rugby level and really doesn't have a lot more to prove there.

Without picking him then you don't know whether he's too small or not. He's 3 kg lighter than Cruden and 4kg lighter than Smith who are both more than capable in the front line at international level.

They'll pick Smith, Dagg, Naholo, Savea, Milner-Skudder and Mckenzie in the squad (I'm presuming they'll pick about 32-36 for the Wales series) and then see how he performs. It gives you 2 big guys, 2 smaller guys and a couple of aerial guys. Pretty balanced squad really.

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#1541175 24-Apr-2016 14:54

networkn:

Barratt showed some magical running and passing. Lucky for the Chiefs he left his kicking boots in the changing room.

I am sure many will disagree, tis the nature of things, but for me, if I was picking for 10 today, I'd rather have Barrett, his running game last night surpassed that of Cruden (Who's running game since he got back has been pretty good).

They need to fix the kicking and quick, but I suspect they will/can. (Though Cruden still isn't really kicking anyways so hard to compare).

The problem looming for AB's is what they do for kickers. When they had Slade/Barrett for Full back, they had a reasonable kicker backup. Cruden can't play any other position.

Cruden will start, which is entirely as it should be. He's the best at running a backline, with Barrett's core skill being running. Cruden gets the backs going early and then Barrett comes on later and runs fresh at tired legs. This is a formula which has been proven to work time and time again. Cruden's form has been outstanding and Barrets has been a bit meh so why would they change this?

They're also likely to start Ngatai at 12 in at least one game so having an established combination there is an obvious advantage.

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Batman

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#1541214 24-Apr-2016 16:50

Knowing Hansen, he likes to put people in the cauldron and see what happens ...

itxtme

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#1541229 24-Apr-2016 17:22

Dingbatt:
itxtme:

Now the next question should be did the Highlanders grip on that ball constitute holding, which is a requirement of 22.1a?

I didn't realise Tamanivalu was from the Highlands! His Scottish heritage certainly doesn't show through. ??

As for the forward pass in the Chiefs try, examine the final pass on the last successful Hurricanes try. Both came backwards out of the hand but drifted forward across the ground, not a forward pass the way the laws are interpreted at the moment.

The way the Chiefs scrum was being dominated by the Hurricanes I would not have liked to have played out of position. Ask yourself what the repercussions of someone sustaining a serious neck injury would have been?

The match didn't live up to my expectations. It seemed to me to be between two teams that had figured each other out.

Barratt showed some magical running and passing. Lucky for the Chiefs he left his kicking boots in the changing room.

Still reliving last years final

Sam91

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#1541231 24-Apr-2016 17:24

I don't think Damian McKenzie is just in a rich vein of form. My father and I tipped him to be an All Black 4 years ago when he was playing secondary school rugby. It was clear back then that he was absolute class. Remember, "form is temporary, class is permanent" : )

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#1541277 24-Apr-2016 17:48

Sam91:

I don't think Damian McKenzie is just in a rich vein of form. My father and I tipped him to be an All Black 4 years ago when he was playing secondary school rugby. It was clear back then that he was absolute class. Remember, "form is temporary, class is permanent" : )

I don't think he played that well last year. Who knows, maybe he is the next big thing, I'll be following with interest.

Batman

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#1541309 24-Apr-2016 18:58

Sam91:
I don't think Damian McKenzie is just in a rich vein of form. My father and I tipped him to be an All Black 4 years ago when he was playing secondary school rugby. It was clear back then that he was absolute class. Remember, "form is temporary, class is permanent" : )

Too early to stamp his class, but we are correct, that would be clear in a few seasons. Esp if he also does it in black. Too easy to be led to the dark paths nowadays.

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#1541340 24-Apr-2016 20:20

networkn:

3. Playing in the front row of the scrum requires IMMENSE strength, simply not feasible (or safe ) to scrummage with a back. If you are talking during general play, it would give them an advantage. I suspect it will be reviewed at the end of the season regardless.

No one is asking no one to scrum. Even scrummaging on the wrong side is also banned. Strength or not.

Can a forward be replaced with another forward? Eg injured substitute prop with a lock on the bench? Playing 14 vs 15 when there are loads of subs on the bench seems weird.

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#1541346 24-Apr-2016 20:40

Great win by the Crusaders over the Brumbies. Daggs boot is bigger than ever! Marty McKenzie looks lively as well! Some amazing tackles and some outstanding tries as well! Nice night to be a Crusaders fan!

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#1543593 28-Apr-2016 19:52

Thought there might have been more discussion on the Chief's questionable substitution that allowed them to play the "no suitable replacement card" therefore Golden Oldies scrums.

Seems to me they bent the rules of fair play to take away the scrum advantage the Hurricanes had on the night. I can see why Chis Boyd was a bit miffed.

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