Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1781875 14-May-2017 11:52

I hope the Lions management weren't watching how the Crusaders shut the Barretts down.

It would only be a problem if the AB's forward pack didn't protect Barrett, something I'd consider moderately unlikely.

The 'Canes forward pack didn't do the work they should have, it allowed the 'Saders to smother the backs.

On another note, David Havilli is on FIRE right now.

Also noteworthy was how well the backs covered the cross kick. Ryan Crottys own was spectacular as well.

Jordie Barrett's kicking was pretty good, the problem is, who do we push to make room for him?

networkn

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#1782528 15-May-2017 13:28

Well, if you want to see a bit of the skill around the European teams, check out the Saracens vs Claremont Final on Youtube. Vinipula is a beast of a man. I wouldn't write the Lions off just yet. I think the AB's will win it, but it's by no means a forgone conclusion.

They also have some pretty big wingers too!

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#1782603 15-May-2017 14:56

The Crusaders looked the more motivated team which is what I expected after their last encounter in 2016. In my memory, Read's response at the time was bitter and talked about how they let the Hurricanes win 35-10. If anything, the Hurricanes took it away from them. I thought the Crusaders did a bit of the same to the Hurricanes this time.

The Hurricanes are really missing Dane Coles. They definitely got worse when Riccitelli went off.

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#1782609 15-May-2017 15:08

Hammerer:

The Crusaders looked the more motivated team which is what I expected after their last encounter in 2016. In my memory, Read's response at the time was bitter and talked about how they let the Hurricanes win 35-10. If anything, the Hurricanes took it away from them. I thought the Crusaders did a bit of the same to the Hurricanes this time.

The Hurricanes are really missing Dane Coles. They definitely got worse when Riccitelli went off.

Yeah, I felt much the same of Perenara's interview, he sounded upset, but didn't really give credit where credit was due or took on the chin his team didn't play that well. He seemed under the impression they played well. (To be fair I think they played ok, they were taken to task by a forward pack who was awesome on the night).

I was surprised by the number of turnovers the Crusaders conceded, I'd have liked to see other angles, because some of them looked illegal.

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#1784945 19-May-2017 21:26

Not the result I wanted, but the one I expected. What a great game between the Crusaders and the Chiefs. The lead changed 4 or 5 times. But in the end the Chiefs lineout let them down (three vital times by my count).
The Crusaders missed Crotty on defence, but what a future prospect Moaga is going to be.
This was the game I was expecting last week between the 'Canes and the'Saders.

Edit :Talkabout a game of two halves. Yet again the Crusaders trail at half time but the second half blitz wins the day.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

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#1784963 19-May-2017 22:19

Canterbury/Crusaders produce an unbelieveable amount of what I'd consider to be first class number 10's. Mitchell Hunt has been awesome as well. Mo 'unga was outstanding the last 2 weeks in particular.

It was a brutal game. Agree missing Crotty on defense.

Forward power wins the Crusaders their 12th in a row.

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#1784971 19-May-2017 23:07

I would suggest two failed line-outs cost the game, the second one particularly which was uncontested. Also that try should not have been allowed, Franks the thug clearly impeded the defence. I disagreed with the video ref, he may have got there and that was a professional foul - so I guess you are right forward power did win the game...

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networkn

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#1784974 19-May-2017 23:21

itxtme:

I would suggest two failed line-outs cost the game, the second one particularly which was uncontested. Also that try should not have been allowed, Franks the thug clearly impeded the defence. I disagreed with the video ref, he may have got there and that was a professional foul - so I guess you are right forward power did win the game...

I'd disagree with your last comment, trying my best to remain impartial, but I didn't see any way that player could have caught him, the change of direction would have been too severe. The video ref and both commentators agreed (I am sure you'll say Marshall is biased, but Goldie certainly isn't at least not toward the Crusaders).

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#1784992 20-May-2017 04:14

networkn:

I'd disagree with your last comment, trying my best to remain impartial, but I didn't see any way that player could have caught him, the change of direction would have been too severe. The video ref and both commentators agreed (I am sure you'll say Marshall is biased, but Goldie certainly isn't at least not toward the Crusaders).

I'd disagree as even if he wasn't able to completely 'tackle' him he would have had an effect on the ball carriers momentum, cut down his space which would have provided more options for the other defenders. If he was not impeded he would have affected the ball carriers decision to run or pass as he would have posed a threat to this left, and also he would have had an effect on the try scorer as he would have been in the frame when the final pass was thrown. It's not as if Franks changed his line to impede him, he deliberately threw out his arm to grab him.

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#1785011 20-May-2017 09:01

So, anyone know what is up with Matt Todd not playing?

NZR needs to seriously investigate Charlie Ngatai. He was pulled from the game with headaches, and surely after such a long "recovery" he hasn't actually recovered properly. I feel for such a talented guy, but is Rugby worth dying over? If he continues to play, and dies or sustain life threatning or changing injuries, there are serious consequences for him, his medical team, NZR and World Rugby. There would never be an end to it.

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#1785014 20-May-2017 09:14

In the end it was the penalty count, particularly those given away in front of the posts that cost the Chiefs. That, and the inability of Cruden to get his kicks over.
Tim Nanae-Williams will probably have recurring nightmares for, 1. Throwing a pass to no one that was grabbed by a Crusaders player and led to an eighty metre try, and 2. Grabbing a ball from an offside position, although to me it is a bit incongruous that the first offence (the knock on) isn't punished first.
The ref penalised the chiefs while defending their line because a player had his hands on the ground over the offside line but then (in similar circumstances) when Romano knocked the ball forward out of TKB's hands, having started a metre and a half offside, all the chiefs got was a scrum. Easy to relitigate after the fact, as is Frank's (alleged) obstruction, but the key moments in the game, like Lowe's try, came down to the bounce of the ball, or hanging on to the ball, something the Crusaders did better in the second half.
How Havili wasn't sent for a concussion test after his 'friendly fire' collision with his number 6 I'll never know. But the loss of Crotty, McNicol and Donald to concussion protocols certainly had an impact on the game. Havili's collision shows how easy it is for a simple defence mechanism of lifting your shoulder to protect yourself turns into 'foul play', contacting the head with force, which would have got the player red carded if he had been wearing a Chiefs jersey. I hope common sense would have prevailed, but I have my doubts.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

itxtme

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#1785037 20-May-2017 11:23

networkn:

So, anyone know what is up with Matt Todd not playing?

NZR needs to seriously investigate Charlie Ngatai. He was pulled from the game with headaches, and surely after such a long "recovery" he hasn't actually recovered properly. I feel for such a talented guy, but is Rugby worth dying over? If he continues to play, and dies or sustain life threatning or changing injuries, there are serious consequences for him, his medical team, NZR and World Rugby. There would never be an end to it.

Thats a decision for the player and his doctors together. You cant have a random investigations into single players by the governing body. If there is a requirement for better protocols that should occur on a national level, and not on a basis of this player has headaches, lets investigate.

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#1785121 20-May-2017 12:55

itxtme:

networkn:

So, anyone know what is up with Matt Todd not playing?

NZR needs to seriously investigate Charlie Ngatai. He was pulled from the game with headaches, and surely after such a long "recovery" he hasn't actually recovered properly. I feel for such a talented guy, but is Rugby worth dying over? If he continues to play, and dies or sustain life threatning or changing injuries, there are serious consequences for him, his medical team, NZR and World Rugby. There would never be an end to it.

Thats a decision for the player and his doctors together. You cant have a random investigations into single players by the governing body. If there is a requirement for better protocols that should occur on a national level, and not on a basis of this player has headaches, lets investigate.

the problem is that the national body will end up being dragged into a media circus, probably end up spending a bunch of money. It's a little of a sticky situation, but I think with his symptoms (and let's be honest there is almost zero chance this isn't related to his concussion),

persisting he should require a mandatory 6-12 months away from the game. Same with any player that has symptoms lasting more than 8-10 weeks.

The governing body should, in my opinion, be allowed to have an independent doctor review him before he plays again. I don't call that random. I call that player care.

itxtme

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#1785363 21-May-2017 01:12

^ I dont disagree that something needs to be done in these cases but the risk of a suggestion like that is that

A) Its based on no medical evidence, ie. Is that even long enough off, too long, never long enough??

B) Players stop reporting their symptoms for dear it will affect their ability to play by a governing body using a lineal model based on not a lot.

I agree with the independent medical professionals, as I personally know of players faking their concussion scores prior to the season starting to make passing the test easier when they are concussed. The team doctor can see right through it but have the pressures of team management to contend with. I do think their has been a vast improvement though, and the Crusaders/Chiefs game is probably a good example of that.

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#1785529 21-May-2017 17:21

itxtme:

^ I dont disagree that something needs to be done in these cases but the risk of a suggestion like that is that

A) Its based on no medical evidence, ie. Is that even long enough off, too long, never long enough??

B) Players stop reporting their symptoms for dear it will affect their ability to play by a governing body using a lineal model based on not a lot.

I agree with the independent medical professionals, as I personally know of players faking their concussion scores prior to the season starting to make passing the test easier when they are concussed. The team doctor can see right through it but have the pressures of team management to contend with. I do think their has been a vast improvement though, and the Crusaders/Chiefs game is probably a good example of that.

It's a really difficult situation. It never occurred to me that players would fudge the results in the pre-season, that is terrifying. The thought they would also not report symptoms so they could keep playing is also, very concerning.

I can't strongly enough state how important I think head gear like Matt Todd wears is. It's not going to solve all issues and I understand why players don't like them, but MT is one of the premium 7's in the world and he plays fine with them on. Broken bones heal, broken brains, not so much.

I do wonder, personally do you feel Ngatai should retire?

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