Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1817549 10-Jul-2017 06:39

Batman:

Scrum penalty.

I don't think you can "go for a scrum penalty". If you dominate the scrum and the other guys collapse the scrum you get a penalty. It's not up to you to dominate or to collapse the scrum but technically it's caused by the other team.

You also can't half dominate the scrum. If the scrum is even, you risk collapsing it conceding a penalty. Might as well push as hard as you can and see what happens. Though I am told the tighthead prop [and sometimes the loosie also] has semi legal (could well be illegal) tricks on how to make the other guy cry and collapse.

Well they did. The commentator said lets go for a scrum penalty, (as it was in easy kicking range)and they got it. Also mentioned to the Lions I think later on. Ive seen and heard that before in a game, so they must do something to try to force a scrum collapse.

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#1817550 10-Jul-2017 06:44

Dingbatt:
tdgeek:

What irritates me is the penalty scrum. AB's had a scrum. Commentators, said lets go for a penalty scrum. It happened. What about playing the game, tries, conversions??? Or maybe we scrap tries and just play for penalties?? 1 for a try, 1 for a conversion, 5 for a penalty. Half glass empty stuff.

Ironically, as I understand the history of the game, a try, grounding the ball over the line, was rewarded by a 'try' at kicking a goal.

Very good, makes sense how thy named it. A penalty should be one point, although then everyone will cheat. Or send the offending team back 22m, or 44. Or no penalty kicks, a turnover instead. Focus on tries and drop goals. Too much focus on forcing a penalty, like when a guy cannot release but wants to, and cannot as the other guy is covering him, another example of milking a penalty. Need less negative play and more positive play

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#1817573 10-Jul-2017 08:37

tdgeek:

Dingbatt:
tdgeek:

What irritates me is the penalty scrum. AB's had a scrum. Commentators, said lets go for a penalty scrum. It happened. What about playing the game, tries, conversions??? Or maybe we scrap tries and just play for penalties?? 1 for a try, 1 for a conversion, 5 for a penalty. Half glass empty stuff.

Ironically, as I understand the history of the game, a try, grounding the ball over the line, was rewarded by a 'try' at kicking a goal.

Very good, makes sense how thy named it. A penalty should be one point, although then everyone will cheat. Or send the offending team back 22m, or 44. Or no penalty kicks, a turnover instead. Focus on tries and drop goals. Too much focus on forcing a penalty, like when a guy cannot release but wants to, and cannot as the other guy is covering him, another example of milking a penalty. Need less negative play and more positive play

If you turn to the other channel you will see that game, it's called league.

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#1817584 10-Jul-2017 08:41

tdgeek:

Very good, makes sense how thy named it. A penalty should be one point, although then everyone will cheat. Or send the offending team back 22m, or 44. Or no penalty kicks, a turnover instead. Focus on tries and drop goals. Too much focus on forcing a penalty, like when a guy cannot release but wants to, and cannot as the other guy is covering him, another example of milking a penalty. Need less negative play and more positive play

Than it will be league and end of rugby union. Racks, physical defence/attack that makes it more watchable for me. If I want run-run-run-run-run-kick-(no one knows what will happen now, but 99% opposition gets the ball and all over again).

And yes I don't like league/7evens

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#1817586 10-Jul-2017 08:47

kobiak:

tdgeek:

Very good, makes sense how thy named it. A penalty should be one point, although then everyone will cheat. Or send the offending team back 22m, or 44. Or no penalty kicks, a turnover instead. Focus on tries and drop goals. Too much focus on forcing a penalty, like when a guy cannot release but wants to, and cannot as the other guy is covering him, another example of milking a penalty. Need less negative play and more positive play

Than it will be league and end of rugby union. Racks, physical defence/attack that makes it more watchable for me. If I want run-run-run-run-run-kick-(no one knows what will happen now, but 99% opposition gets the ball and all over again).

And yes I don't like league/7evens

Im not suggesting a league game, I'm suggesting that penalties stop being the go to means of scoring. Don't reward a penalty with 3 easy points, hence remove the milking.

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#1817600 10-Jul-2017 09:30

@tdgeek, I thought RU is going to change points system (6+2 for try and only 2 for penalty??), that will make it less appealing for kick-goal penalty. I might be wrong :)

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#1817609 10-Jul-2017 09:43

tdgeek:

Batman:

to the clever lawyers of the game - "accidental offside": what is the correct ruling?

11.6 Accidental offside

IMO the applicable rule is 11.7 Accidental Offside from a Knock on.

There is only one sanction under that rule - a penalty.

But ... It's no excuse for the ABs. You don't leave yourself in a position where one bad refereeing decision can cost you the game.

You kick your goals and you catch your passes.

Mike

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#1817611 10-Jul-2017 09:49

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Batman:

to the clever lawyers of the game - "accidental offside": what is the correct ruling?

11.6 Accidental offside

IMO the applicable rule is 11.7 Accidental Offside from a Knock on.

There is only one sanction under that rule - a penalty.

But ... It's no excuse for the ABs. You don't leave yourself in a position where one bad refereeing decision can cost you the game.

You kick your goals and you catch your passes.

Agree with this, I think the AB's will not be happy with their skills execution. IMO they allowed themselves to feel pressure that wasn't always there, making passes that weren't on. Prior AB's campaigns have been based on upfront first, grind them down, and then blow them off the park, to me they went wide too early, something that you will pay for if the team is good on defense (which the Lions admittedly, were). The AB's weren't good enough over the ball, and at the breakdown. It was nice to hear SH make a comment to the effect that BB is working through a technical issue with his kicking, which means they have identified the issue and are working with him on it. I may have been inclined to get Jordie kicking, but the bottom line is we shelled at least 2 easy tries in that last game and I suspect it may be the last we see of JS for a while.

I imagine the debrief will be honest and to the point and each player will be given things to work on for the next test matches.

tdgeek

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#1817623 10-Jul-2017 10:02

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Batman:

to the clever lawyers of the game - "accidental offside": what is the correct ruling?

11.6 Accidental offside

IMO the applicable rule is 11.7 Accidental Offside from a Knock on.

There is only one sanction under that rule - a penalty.

But ... It's no excuse for the ABs. You don't leave yourself in a position where one bad refereeing decision can cost you the game.

You kick your goals and you catch your passes.

Agree. The same goes for both sides, the Lions threw away try opportunities in the first test, they then threw away penalty after penalty in the second.

They are both very good sides, no more than that at the moment. If they make consistent errors, they are not as good as what pundits may feel

Jas777

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#1817630 10-Jul-2017 10:06

I thought it was in the loose forwards that we were below par. The 3 players were a bit too much the same. We don't have an out and out fetcher anymore.

I think they need to look into the loose forwards for the next world cup big time now. It may mean Kaino is gone and a fetcher brought in and transfer Cane to number 6. Or even put Read back to number 6 as he gets slower and bring in a new dynamic number 8.

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#1817631 10-Jul-2017 10:09

Jas777:

I thought it was in the loose forwards that we were below par. The 3 players were a bit too much the same. We don't have an out and out fetcher anymore.

I think they need to look into the loose forwards for the next world cup big time now. It may mean Kaino is gone and a fetcher brought in and transfer Cane to number 6. Or even put Read back to number 6 as he gets slower and bring in a new dynamic number 8.

Agreed, I was going to make a similar call regarding fetchers. I would say it's not an area NZ Rugby has prioritised, so there is no "obvious" choice in any of the teams. Matt Todd gets a good number of pinches, he is a lot like RM as a player. He himself is getting older however.

Kaino is 34, he will not be at the next Cup I don't think. He is a beast of a man, one of my favourite to ever wear 6, but players can't continue forever. I suspect his time in the Black Jersey is all but over. He said as much recently.

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#1817634 10-Jul-2017 10:15

We also big time missed Coles, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty to a lesser degree and a goal kicker.

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#1817641 10-Jul-2017 10:21

Jas777:

We also big time missed Coles, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty to a lesser degree and a goal kicker.

See I'd say I felt Ryan Crotty was missed a lot, he is very much like Conrad Smith, he communicates well, and see's things that other players don't. He is dependable on defense and doesn't give away a lot of penalties.

If Ben Smith had been in that last game, we would not have scored the Laumape try as he wasn't tall enough to catch that BB kick I don't think. It was near the maximum of JB's 6.5" reach.

I thought Codie Taylor afforded himself well at hooker.

Jas777

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#1817703 10-Jul-2017 11:02

networkn:

Jas777:

We also big time missed Coles, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty to a lesser degree and a goal kicker.

See I'd say I felt Ryan Crotty was missed a lot, he is very much like Conrad Smith, he communicates well, and see's things that other players don't. He is dependable on defense and doesn't give away a lot of penalties.

If Ben Smith had been in that last game, we would not have scored the Laumape try as he wasn't tall enough to catch that BB kick I don't think. It was near the maximum of JB's 6.5" reach.

I thought Codie Taylor afforded himself well at hooker.

Yes true about Crotty and if he is out for the playoffs in super rugby the Crusaders don't win it.

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#1817705 10-Jul-2017 11:04

Jas777:

networkn:

Jas777:

We also big time missed Coles, Ben Smith, Ryan Crotty to a lesser degree and a goal kicker.

See I'd say I felt Ryan Crotty was missed a lot, he is very much like Conrad Smith, he communicates well, and see's things that other players don't. He is dependable on defense and doesn't give away a lot of penalties.

If Ben Smith had been in that last game, we would not have scored the Laumape try as he wasn't tall enough to catch that BB kick I don't think. It was near the maximum of JB's 6.5" reach.

I thought Codie Taylor afforded himself well at hooker.

Yes true about Crotty and if he is out for the playoffs in super rugby the Crusaders don't win it.

I am hoping that neither of those things are true as a Crusaders fan, however, you may be right. This week will be telling. I have great hopes for Jack Goodhue, I wasn't surprised to see him included in the AB's Squad.

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