Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1923942 23-Dec-2017 09:29

Also George Moala is leaving to go to France! That's a little surprising IMO. He featured regularly for the AB's. I guess he felt he wasn't ever going to become first choice.

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#1924353 24-Dec-2017 07:45

networkn:
Unfortunately, this pretty much confirms what I already knew.

We aren't dirty players as such, but we are the worst tier 1 team in the world for getting cards! Not a stat I think we should be proud of, but one I am disappointed that Steve Hansen probably won't care too much about.

Discipline has been a problem this year, I have lamented it all season.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/100003210/steve-hansens-all-blacks-the-least-disciplined-tier-one-team-in-world-rugby

Doesn’t worry me at all, somebody has to number one for cards received - so much comes down to refereeing interpretations etc.
The only stat I’m looking at is we’re number one ranked best team.

networkn

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#1948425 30-Jan-2018 09:43

clevedon:
networkn:

Unfortunately, this pretty much confirms what I already knew.

We aren't dirty players as such, but we are the worst tier 1 team in the world for getting cards! Not a stat I think we should be proud of, but one I am disappointed that Steve Hansen probably won't care too much about.

Discipline has been a problem this year, I have lamented it all season.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/100003210/steve-hansens-all-blacks-the-least-disciplined-tier-one-team-in-world-rugby

Doesn’t worry me at all, somebody has to number one for cards received - so much comes down to refereeing interpretations etc.
The only stat I’m looking at is we’re number one ranked best team.

I can't support the view that it doesn't matter how we get to #1, only that we are. I'd rather be #2 and play in a sportsman like manner. Some of our cards are interpretation, but most of them are dumba$$ decisions by our players. Not enough care is being taken in tackles.

We have managed to be #1 for a long time, but our discipline has pretty much got worse over the past 3 years.

clevedon

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#1948460 30-Jan-2018 09:59

networkn:

clevedon:
networkn:

Unfortunately, this pretty much confirms what I already knew.

We aren't dirty players as such, but we are the worst tier 1 team in the world for getting cards! Not a stat I think we should be proud of, but one I am disappointed that Steve Hansen probably won't care too much about.

Discipline has been a problem this year, I have lamented it all season.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/100003210/steve-hansens-all-blacks-the-least-disciplined-tier-one-team-in-world-rugby

Doesn’t worry me at all, somebody has to number one for cards received - so much comes down to refereeing interpretations etc.
The only stat I’m looking at is we’re number one ranked best team.

I can't support the view that it doesn't matter how we get to #1, only that we are. I'd rather be #2 and play in a sportsman like manner. Some of our cards are interpretation, but most of them are dumba$$ decisions by our players. Not enough care is being taken in tackles.

We have managed to be #1 for a long time, but our discipline has pretty much got worse over the past 3 years.

Two utterly completely different stats.

Or are you saying we are now currently number one ranked because we are the dirtiest players as shown by the number of cards we receive?

I haven't read anywhere that anybody in world rugby that says we are are winning/ranked number one because of our bad discipline.

networkn

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#1948467 30-Jan-2018 10:07

clevedon:

Or are you saying we are now currently number one ranked because we are the dirtiest players as shown by the number of cards we receive?

I haven't read anywhere that anybody in world rugby that says we are are winning/ranked number one because of our bad discipline.

No, I am saying I don't believe being #1 is more important than playing in the spirit of the game. Winning at any cost doesn't sit well with me. Of course, I still want to win, I am very competitive, but I don't consider winning, the only thing that matters.

Separately, I am saying I am very concerned about discipline, as is reflected by our high card count, not to mention our massively high penalty count in a fair number of games.

A lot of our penalties are brain dead stuff, that most school boy teams are taught not to make.

I also think it's a bit to do with the fact we aren't as fit as we were a couple of years ago, that gap has closed.

I do see some cynicism in our play esp last year, but crept in the year before as well. BB was guilty of some shockers both for the Hurricanes and the AB's.

We lack some composure when we are under pressure. It's a bit to do with the number of relatively inexperienced guys we have.

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#1948506 30-Jan-2018 10:24

networkn:

I can't support the view that it doesn't matter how we get to #1, only that we are. I'd rather be #2 and play in a sportsman like manner. Some of our cards are interpretation, but most of them are dumba$$ decisions by our players. Not enough care is being taken in tackles.

We have managed to be #1 for a long time, but our discipline has pretty much got worse over the past 3 years.

I agree that we should try to be first in positive on-field behaviours rather than resorting to anything to be number one. But I think that our discipline is much as I would expect it to be given the following:

As you mention, over the three years there have been a lot more new players learning to cope with the mental intensity. It is no surprise that there are so many brain fades given our cultural factors which includes our preference for individual brilliance over team cohesion.
Not playing with a settled first team means that we haven't been building well-honed combinations. This increases both the mental pressure and the likelihood of error.
We prefer performance over discipline in Super Rugby so the same carries over into the All Blacks. Some players will keep making the same sort of mistakes because it often leads to successful play. e.g. Beauden Barrett attempts a lot of intercepts and gets penalised for deliberate knock-ons. To show we're serious about stopping ill-discipline, I'd be benching players who exhibit behaviour consistent with their history of ill-discipline: Jeff Toomaga-Allen is an example of one with that sort of history which I hope won't lead to penalties in the All Blacks.
Sonny Bill is a statistical outlier. Even after years of rugby he is still transitioning from league play and rules. Without his inexcusable errors we wouldn't be the worst.

I'd like to see the stats by referee home country. My impression is that Australasian referees, when compared with northern hemisphere referees, are more likely to favour fluid play by avoiding penalties. If that is true then that would be another reason too be less concerned about the card rankings.

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#1948525 30-Jan-2018 10:49

Chris Boyd - Hurricanes Coach is leaving NZ! Off to a position in the UK.

Will be interesting to see who replaces him? Plumtree? He was head coach at the Sharks, so understands the process of head coach. - Update. Yes seems he is the replacement.

I am looking forward to the new SR season. I am expecting a stronger Australia. Will be interesting for me to see how the new backs in the Crusaders play. I am expecting a fair bit from the Jack Goodhue this year, I am hoping he will head up the pecking order at the AB's for centers. I'd really like to see more of Crotty and Goodhue together.

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networkn

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#1948597 30-Jan-2018 12:59

Hammerer:

networkn:

I can't support the view that it doesn't matter how we get to #1, only that we are. I'd rather be #2 and play in a sportsman like manner. Some of our cards are interpretation, but most of them are dumba$$ decisions by our players. Not enough care is being taken in tackles.

We have managed to be #1 for a long time, but our discipline has pretty much got worse over the past 3 years.

I agree that we should try to be first in positive on-field behaviours rather than resorting to anything to be number one. But I think that our discipline is much as I would expect it to be given the following:

As you mention, over the three years there have been a lot more new players learning to cope with the mental intensity. It is no surprise that there are so many brain fades given our cultural factors which includes our preference for individual brilliance over team cohesion.
Not playing with a settled first team means that we haven't been building well-honed combinations. This increases both the mental pressure and the likelihood of error.
We prefer performance over discipline in Super Rugby so the same carries over into the All Blacks. Some players will keep making the same sort of mistakes because it often leads to successful play. e.g. Beauden Barrett attempts a lot of intercepts and gets penalised for deliberate knock-ons. To show we're serious about stopping ill-discipline, I'd be benching players who exhibit behaviour consistent with their history of ill-discipline: Jeff Toomaga-Allen is an example of one with that sort of history which I hope won't lead to penalties in the All Blacks.
Sonny Bill is a statistical outlier. Even after years of rugby he is still transitioning from league play and rules. Without his inexcusable errors we wouldn't be the worst.
I'd like to see the stats by referee home country. My impression is that Australasian referees, when compared with northern hemisphere referees, are more likely to favour fluid play by avoiding penalties. If that is true then that would be another reason too be less concerned about the card rankings.

Hi. I do agree with some of those comments. I'd be interested on a full break down on SBW. This year was his best year on defense for the AB's. He was immense. I read somewhere he was either the top tackler of the AB's last season, or something equally huge.

I don't think it really matters the country of the ref. Ultimately, we need to understand the way the game is reffed. Half our games are played against Northern teams.

I agree, however, that the games with Southern Refs tend to be more enjoyable to play.

networkn

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#1948598 30-Jan-2018 13:00

Charlie Ngatai annouces he is leaving NZ Rugby.

A shame in some ways, he showed so much promise before his injuries, but clearly wasn't going to break into the AB's again I don't think, not with all the other players lined up there.

Right choice for him, but I feel we have lost a fantastic player and servant to NZ Rugby.

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#1949213 31-Jan-2018 12:44

Who are you guys looking forward to seeing amoungst the less well known players in SR, the Newbies if you like?

I am interested to see how Asafo Aumua, Jack Goodhue, Braydon Ennor and Will Jordan go.

Not newbies but keen to see how Duffie, Havilli and Vince Aso go this year. Will be interesting to see how Damian McKenzie copes at 10. I do wonder if he will get the space he probably thrives in, though I'd most like to see him get rid of that creepy little smile he has when he lines up kicks.

Anyone got predictions on how the NZ conference will stack up?

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#1951612 4-Feb-2018 21:45

So does anyone have a summary of the new rules for 15's this season?

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#1953493 8-Feb-2018 09:32

OMG Quade "brain fade" Cooper is paid $700K a YEAR? What do they pay their first and second tier Wallabies!??

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11990239

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#1954986 10-Feb-2018 23:19

:( Crusaders lose to Hurricanes in the Semi Final by 4 points, at the Brisbane 10's. Shame they didn't notice the knock on from Saveas Pass at 34 Seconds.

On a positive note at least it's an all NZ final.

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#1954991 10-Feb-2018 23:25

The standard of refereeing has been extremely poor over both days unfortunately.

As you say, at least there's two kiwi teams in the final. This format seems to suit the way the blues play very well.

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#1954994 10-Feb-2018 23:29

wratterus: The standard of refereeing has been extremely poor over both days unfortunately.

As you say, at least there's two kiwi teams in the final. This format seems to suit the way the blues play very well.

To be honest, I am surprised the Hurricanes were even in the finals, the games I watched, they were awful except the last 2. I guess those are the ones that matter.

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