Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1972301 10-Mar-2018 12:31

One of the things I don't understand is why people keep tackling Naholo so poorly. I believe a lot of his tries aren't really that amazing (I agree some of them are spectacular), but the one he ran in first against the Stormers, was more down to how incredibly poor their tackling technique was. Had someone of tackled his hips or even a decent thigh one, it puts him down.

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#1972309 10-Mar-2018 12:32

"Smith will have the final say, and why not, he has talked the entire game"

Classic and completely true!

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#1972537 10-Mar-2018 21:48

Well done 'canes. I'm impressed the Crusaders were in it at all after the blitz in the first half. The game could have gone against the canes had it not have been for the huge number of errors made by the Crusaders. They seemed a little lost at times without Crotty Mo'unga and Esp Sam Whitelock. I thought they did well to be even in the hunt. Proud of them to hold the Hurricanes BPless

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#1972772 11-Mar-2018 18:59

I am not sure how the Blues won that game and the Lions lost it. Shows a fair bit of backbone and hopefully a better stronger Blues. I am not holding my breath for miracles though, any more than a single decent game by the Warriors has me expecting much more this season.

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#1972914 12-Mar-2018 07:06

networkn:

Well done 'canes. I'm impressed the Crusaders were in it at all after the blitz in the first half. The game could have gone against the canes had it not have been for the huge number of errors made by the Crusaders.

I thought the Crusaders' errors in both halves were mainly due to the pressure from the Hurricanes. They couldn't string together a good attack in the second half but their rush defence was still full of energy right until the end.

The Crusaders have now lost five in a row at Westpac Stadium. Hopefully they'll start to dread coming to Wellington.

TeaLeaf

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#1972974 12-Mar-2018 09:54

networkn:

Shows a fair bit of backbone and hopefully a better stronger Blues.

I know, I feel the same as you, but this is how I see it.

The Blues franchise of Old would have not had close games, been in with a chance points wise. They would have lost by 20.

The Blues have had 3 very hard close games against arguably 3 of the best teams in the comp. They were always against the 8 ball vs Waikato but hung in there looking like they could get the lead back for most of the game.

So Im just happy they got some reward for hanging in there this time, if you do that 1/3 against the best teams and get bonus points on the other 2, you arent really doing that bad.

Its pretty obvious there is a massive change from the last number of years anyway.

Gone are the days it was provincial rugby and not professional rugby where Auckland province could just turn up expect (possibly a little arrogantly, but winning 5 years in a row does that) and win 50-0. I think for sooooo long after initial Super rugby success due to being the actual PROVINCIAL best, teams now have gotten Pro rugby down to an art with hiring, expiring and firing players, coaches, trainers that you can buy a winning "Franchise", the one thing the coach and management have to have though is the ability to instill cultural change.

It kind of reminds me Liverpool in the football, how they were pretty much unbeatable for so long, then the EPL came around and Sir AF turned Man U into the unbeatables with buying a team, but he still had to change the culture.

I kind of switched off Union when super rugby started, I played up until about then and did my back which might have something to do with it, but Im just tired of the Blues because its actually no longer Auckland Rugby, and what we do put out after super rugby is a shell shocked version from Super Rugby, ie players warn out.

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#1972975 12-Mar-2018 10:02

TeaLeaf:

networkn:

Shows a fair bit of backbone and hopefully a better stronger Blues.

I know, I feel the same as you, but this is how I see it.

The Blues franchise of Old would have not had close games, been in with a chance points wise. They would have lost by 20.

The Blues have had 3 very hard close games against arguably 3 of the best teams in the comp. They were always against the 8 ball vs Waikato but hung in there looking like they could get the lead back for most of the game.

So Im just happy they got some reward for hanging in there this time, if you do that 1/3 against the best teams and get bonus points on the other 2, you arent really doing that bad.

Its pretty obvious there is a massive change from the last number of years anyway.

No. What happened against the Chiefs was disgraceful. They should have THRASHED them. This is the issue that continues to plague Auckland sports teams. They front when they aren't expected to, and don't when they absolutely should. Hence my prediction against the Warriors and offer to make a donation if they can even make the top 8 this year, which I sadly don't think they can. I believe that on the whole, it's the Auckland backs that tend to "go missing" in big games.

The Lions absolutely let the Blues off the hook, but I also think the Lions have managed better than they are because since last year the only NZ teams they faced was the Hurricanes (Won at home) and Crusaders in the Final which they lost (Which honestly was likely because they played with 14 men for most of the game). I think if either of those games were NZ home games, there would have been a much different scoreline to the Hurricanes and Crusaders games.

The Lions are the best SA team in the competition, they are probably the best non NZ team in the comp (Don't the Brumbies look terrible this year!?), but I would suspect on a day where the Lions played their best, they would be lucky to beat a NZ team in NZ.

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#1972976 12-Mar-2018 10:06

Hammerer:

networkn:

Well done 'canes. I'm impressed the Crusaders were in it at all after the blitz in the first half. The game could have gone against the canes had it not have been for the huge number of errors made by the Crusaders.

I thought the Crusaders' errors in both halves were mainly due to the pressure from the Hurricanes. They couldn't string together a good attack in the second half but their rush defence was still full of energy right until the end.

The Crusaders have now lost five in a row at Westpac Stadium. Hopefully they'll start to dread coming to Wellington.

I think the Crusaders looked rattled and out of sorts. Players in less familiar areas, key members missing etc. I don't really see the 'canes becoming a bogey team for the Crusaders, but you never know.

I think I am the only person in NZ who thinks Julian Savea still isn't close to his best? They kept talking him up during the game, but he has lost that Aura of Invincibility. I believe his confidence and his movement are both missing somewhat. Maybe I am just used to him scoring tries and it seems a little dry in this regard recently.

I think the Crusaders did a reasonable job of wrapping Laumape too, which was good.

MikeAqua

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#1972980 12-Mar-2018 10:17

networkn:

One of the things I don't understand is why people keep tackling Naholo so poorly. I believe a lot of his tries aren't really that amazing (I agree some of them are spectacular), but the one he ran in first against the Stormers, was more down to how incredibly poor their tackling technique was. Had someone of tackled his hips or even a decent thigh one, it puts him down.

I would like to watch you try this yourself.

Mike

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#1972986 12-Mar-2018 10:22

MikeAqua:

networkn:

One of the things I don't understand is why people keep tackling Naholo so poorly. I believe a lot of his tries aren't really that amazing (I agree some of them are spectacular), but the one he ran in first against the Stormers, was more down to how incredibly poor their tackling technique was. Had someone of tackled his hips or even a decent thigh one, it puts him down.

I would like to watch you try this yourself.

I am not paid 200K+ a year to tackle people for a living. Regardless, people do bring him down if they use good technique. If you watch that one try with him running down the try line, there is no excuse for him scoring that try. He wasn't superhuman ( I have seen him score superhuman tries and he deserves full credit for his finishing of tries often), he was very poorly defended. Watch it and tell me different.

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#1972995 12-Mar-2018 10:28

networkn:

Hence my prediction against the Warriors and offer to make a donation if they can even make the top 8 this year, which I sadly don't think they can. I believe that on the whole, it's the Auckland backs that tend to "go missing" in big games.

I can tell you actually care by the way hehe, you are just pissed and expecting more but I think at the same time you see a glimmer of change.

Oh dont get on the warriors, Im telling you thats how you change a club, one bit at a time. With the warriors it was the forwards who wouldnt turn up, playing Perth during the Day, not one single forward looked shot, where as the rabbits were bunching by half time. Last year Kearney fixed us dropping the ball (Set completion AVG above 80% and in the top 4 teams), this year it is fitness and every single person who watched the game including the commentators wouldnt shut up about how fit the warriors are, props to the club for nabbing the Trainer Corvo, worth twice his pay.

Back to the Blues, there does need to be more continuity in the backs, which is where they go missing, playing as individuals, we have currently the #1 back in the game, our only player in the top 10. But how do we play as a team to set up our super star backs. Im sure Coach has that in his head. But rome wasnt built in a day and we are no longer playing provincial rugby so we cant just expect Auck to be the best, which based on per capita is partly why that occured in the old days.

Im struggling to find interest in the competition again, it just doesnt have any meaning to me, the ABs do, because we cant BUY and ABs team, the Blues for me dont represent Auck, no more than the Saders represent Canterbury. Its hard to get back any emotional buy in.

Which is odd as when Super rugby started and I stopped playing myself I moved to Aus and that was a shock for pro sport, Sports Clubs with multiple resteraunts, casinos, entertainment, pubs. Being a League player as well I was in heaven and lost a bit of my union interest along with that feeling Auck is no longer Auck. But this is the thing about the Warriors, they do represent Auck to me and why they have been such a heart break. Living in Aus being a kiwi supporting the Warriors haha. The only thing that gave me some leigh way is im a Blues SOO and Sydney AFL supporter and I never mentioned union, well nobody would reply had I anyway.

This is the difference Im getting at here, not trying to get off track of union. What rugby club actually has a 3 story CLUB for supporters to hang out in 24/7, eat, drink and waste money talking about how good they were (Russel Crowe pre Rabbitohs GF lol)?

Thats where fan culture and expectation is also born. In Aus, fans hold the players accountable, literally, in person. If you have lived in Manly you will know what I mean. Ill transfer this point to the warriors thread from here but, my point is, perhaps our fans due to always just expecting the blues to win, and there being soooooo much more in Auck than just Union, there isnt that accountability smaller provinces have, and those smaller provinces probably dont care that their team is bought and doesnt really represent them, they will take whatever they can get. Im saying perhaps some Auck fans need to lift their game too, although you would be lucky to see a player out and about lol, just something in that old culture of Auck Rugby, expecting to win... was not a good culture for Pro Sport, from the current Franchise or the fans.

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#1973002 12-Mar-2018 10:33

TeaLeaf:

I can tell you actually care by the way hehe, you are just pissed and expecting more but I think at the same time you see a glimmer of change.

I am not really a fan of league, I can't get into no breakdown and no real scrums, but I love sport in general, and often watch finals of sports I don't follow. (I consider one of the best games of sport I've ever seen was the Cricket Semi Final against SA during the World Cup).

For me it's hard not to feel that with the talent that is thrown into the Warriors they can't be consistent. Same as the Blues. I am not a Blues fan per se, but I still want them to do better than bottom 3.

I am fine if they are the 5th or even 4th best team in NZ, but I still expect they would never lose to the Sunwolves, and I'd expect them to finish JUST outside the finals, or even be knocked out in the Quarters.

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#1973043 12-Mar-2018 10:59

networkn:

[(I consider one of the best games of sport I've ever seen was the Cricket Semi Final against SA during the World Cup).

Yeah that was a cracker, one of the Eng vs Aus odi games was up there this year. It wasnt the 180 from Roy game, it was the one Jos Butler won from #7.

Sport is always the winner when its close, win or lose.

Yes thats how I feel about the blues, I just want them to improve this year, great if they make the finals, if they just mis out, great.

Im a closet Hurricanes supporter so Im hoping they keep playing well.

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#1973048 12-Mar-2018 11:02

I'd like the Hurricanes to do well too, just not better than the Crusaders :)

The 'canes are really the only team I am seriously concerned about against the Crusaders. I am not saying the Crusaders will beat everyone, or anything close to that arrogant, but I generally don't fret as much against Crusaders vs other teams as much as I do against the Hurricanes.

It used to be the Chiefs, but that had a lot to do with how the Chiefs played in general and how they got under the Crusaders skins.

I am glad to see the back of Rennie who I think was bad for NZR. I don't think he got the difference between playing WITH mongrel, and playing LIKE a Mongrel.

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#1973492 12-Mar-2018 19:19

networkn:

I am glad to see the back of Rennie who I think was bad for NZR. I don't think he got the difference between playing WITH mongrel, and playing LIKE a Mongrel.

That's an interesting statement. But I read it as insulting to Rennie and the Chiefs. WITH is definitely better than LIKE but it's barely positive. It's OK for someone to describe themselves as bringing "a bit of mongrel" but it is usually a veiled insult if others use those terms, e.g. of the MP Judith Collins.

In his first year coaching the Chiefs, Rennie made them Super Rugby champions. He was, as Wikipedia says, "the first first-year Super Rugby coach to win a Super Rugby title"!

Here's the Chief's record at the time

2010 11th
2011 10th

Rennie becomes coach!

2012 1st
2013 1st

He didn't come from nowhere. He had a solid record of coaching teams to a higher level of performance than before he arrived.

He'd been assistant coach at the Hurricanes so I liked him already. Even so, I thought the Chiefs championship win might be a flash in a pan. I definitely gave to much credibility to people who were anti-Rennie, anti-Chiefs or anti their style of play. Then the Chiefs won again. Well done! Kudos for the Chiefs and kudos for Rennie.

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