Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1973512 12-Mar-2018 19:49

Hammerer:

That's an interesting statement. But I read it as insulting to Rennie and the Chiefs. WITH is definitely better than LIKE but it's barely positive. It's OK for someone to describe themselves as bringing "a bit of mongrel" but it is usually a veiled insult if others use those terms, e.g. of the MP Judith Collins.

It was meant as an insult if I am honest.

I don't see any place for thuggery in Rugby, I don't see any place for coaches that encourage it. I don't like it when the AB's do it and have condemned it when I have seen it, and I definitely feel the same way when the Crusaders have been guilty of it.

I don't argue his results, just the method by which they were achieved. I know someone who played in the Chiefs development team. It was well known that Rennie encouraged his players to try and upset the opposing team, with niggle and sledging.

Tamifuna, Messam and some of those others who have now moved on, really loved it (The niggle and conflict). The Chiefs are playing with a lot of the same freedom they have under Rennie, but with less of the negatives.

There is a difference between being physical and trying to hurt someone.

Just my take on it. Others really liked that style, but if the AB's played like they used to now, I wouldn't be as big of a fan.

A really good example.. A few years back Coles was getting into trouble, was yellow carded for retaliations and causing a fracas, it was the result of Steve Hansen telling him he wanted Coles to be more aggressive and physical. Coles misunderstood and got himself and the AB's into trouble. Steve Hansen had a second meeting with him, and it clicked. It was about that time that Coles went from good, to amazing, because he channelled his aggression better.

MikeAqua

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#1973908 13-Mar-2018 12:08

networkn:

I am not paid 200K+ a year to tackle people for a living. Regardless, people do bring him down if they use good technique. If you watch that one try with him running down the try line, there is no excuse for him scoring that try. He wasn't superhuman ( I have seen him score superhuman tries and he deserves full credit for his finishing of tries often), he was very poorly defended. Watch it and tell me different.

My point is it might look easy from couch but it isn't. I wouldn't like to try to tackle him. There are several issues: -

1) He changes speed a lot and quickly, which makes timing a tackle difficult;

2) He get his knees and thighs going like scythes which make its difficult to tackle low;

3) He is big and fast and strong;

There is also the matter that if you tackle low he will offload ... so you have new problem.

Anyway Highlanders are winning so I'm happy.

Mike

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#1978929 17-Mar-2018 04:36

I watched the Bulls nearly upset the Chiefs with some very good running and passing from the backline. It is hard to believe that it was the Bulls playing. Last year they were hardly capable of running into the gaps or playing with width.

Well done John Mitchell and the other Bulls coaching staff. I actually want to watch the Bulls play now.

networkn

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#1979442 18-Mar-2018 19:56

I was disappointed by the decisions made by the ref and TMO in disallowing the try to Tafua. It was clearly knocked out of the hands by a Highlanders player and traveled backward anyway. I am not claiming we would have won as a result, but it's poor reffing in my view. There were a couple of other moments I felt were poorly handled. Having said that the Crusaders are missing their key players and it does show in the little things. They were competitive to a point. I will note however @mikeaqua that the Crusaders didn't have any real trouble taking Nahalo down in the tackle. They all but smothered him, which is smart. It's the same way to stop McKenzie and Nehe Milner Skudder. It's harder to stop a player in full flight.

Bulls played well. The score didn't really reflect it, but it was a big turn around from the past few seasons and even weeks.

The Blues we know and love are back I see. Thrashed by a travel weary Stormers in a game they should have won. I am just waiting for the Warriors to show the same signs.

Ireland beat England again, what a remarkable year the Irish are having. Not sure they worry me as much as they seem to worry others, I think the AB's would have really hurt both teams based on the performance last night.

tukapa1

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#1979461 18-Mar-2018 20:31

networkn:
I was disappointed by the decisions made by the ref and TMO in disallowing the try to Tafua. It was clearly knocked out of the hands by a Highlanders player and traveled backward anyway. I am not claiming we would have won as a result, but it's poor reffing in my view. There were a couple of other moments I felt were poorly handled. Having said that the Crusaders are missing their key players and it does show in the little things.

A bit predictable from you. Crusaders lost, blah ref, bad decisions blah, blah injuries, missing players blah.

I know you think you're not extremely one eyed, but you really are.

Couldn't possibly be that a genuinely one dimensional team with an over rated coach was out thought, out passioned and out played.

You do realise that every single team has played or is playing games with key players unavailable? Get used to it. By the time the ABs have had all their required rest weeks and been off to the training camps during the super rugby season, they will have missed a huge chunk of the season. You can't rely on all the ABs that the Crusaders have poached from other areas into their system.

It's really disappointing to me that this thread, which could be genuinely enjoyable and informative, is basically the networkn cheer club - member of one. I'm sure people genuinely don't comment in this thread solely due to your spam.

You show a lack of understanding in some of your comments and I wonder what your experience is with rugby, either playing or coaching, in the real world.

networkn

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#1979462 18-Mar-2018 20:33

tukapa1:
networkn:

I was disappointed by the decisions made by the ref and TMO in disallowing the try to Tafua. It was clearly knocked out of the hands by a Highlanders player and traveled backward anyway. I am not claiming we would have won as a result, but it's poor reffing in my view. There were a couple of other moments I felt were poorly handled. Having said that the Crusaders are missing their key players and it does show in the little things.

A bit predictable from you. Crusaders lost, blah ref, bad decisions blah, blah injuries, missing players blah.

Oh, give it a rest already! Boy what a prize rant!

I didn't say we were any worse off as a result of having players missing than any other teams, I said it was obvious based on how we play without them they were missing.

I also said the disallowed try wasn't the only reason we lost. I also wasn't talking exclusively about our AB's that were missing.

Go calm yourself down. Your irrational hatred for the Crusaders (and me it would seem) is what is tiresome.

For the record, what makes 2017/8 Crusaders One dimensional by the way? What makes Scott Robertson an overrated coach (and since you didn't rate Blackadder either!). Share with the group your knowledge which is obviously far superior to the rest?

Educate me, knower of all.

Hammerer

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#1979507 19-Mar-2018 07:45

networkn, I can see tukapa1's point about the Crusaders. Your "one-eyed" response is such a clear example of what he said.

The Crusaders were pressured by the Highlanders for almost the entire game. That strategy worked for the Hurricanes for most of the game the previous week.

The disallowed try was pivotal to the final result but I agree with the referee on that. It was characteristic of the weekend that there were so many attempts to score tries that failed because of players holding the ball too loosely.

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networkn

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#1979588 19-Mar-2018 09:54

Hammerer:

networkn, I can see tukapa1's point about the Crusaders. Your "one-eyed" response is such a clear example of what he said.

The Crusaders were pressured by the Highlanders for almost the entire game. That strategy worked for the Hurricanes for most of the game the previous week.

The disallowed try was pivotal to the final result but I agree with the referee on that. It was characteristic of the weekend that there were so many attempts to score tries that failed because of players holding the ball too loosely.

Heh, well seems I can't win. Apparently, the only comments I am allowed to make are ones that are either negative about the Crusaders or positive towards other teams. I watch a lot of Rugby, I support a lot of teams. I comment on a lot of games too, not just Crusaders games, I do this to ENCOURAGE discussion. Sorry it's seen as spam.

I have watched the replay a half dozen times and I have not seen any evidence that the ball bounced forward. I am ok if someone can show a replay that shows the ball moving forward, to change my view.

I'd also be genuinely interested in what section of the rulebook covers this particular play. If the ball drops down and bounces backward, my understanding of the rules, is that it's play on.

Let me be clear. I do NOT believe this play was the sole reason the Crusaders lost that game. I simply stated I was disappointed by the call and put forward my view on what should have happened. I believe that the Crusaders aren't fronting up which traditionally has been a strong point for them, it's how they came from behind so many times in 2017 to win games. They haven't done this particularly well so far this season.

MikeAqua

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#1979640 19-Mar-2018 10:37

Highlanders won. England Lost. All with a few pints of Guinness. A great St Patty's day.

Mike

networkn

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#1979656 19-Mar-2018 10:47

MikeAqua:

Highlanders won. England Lost. All with a few pints of Guinness. A great St Patty's day.

I was kind of surprised to see England lose 3 on the bounce. I think they have been a LITTLE overrated, but that is pretty poor. Lots of critical commentary from the press against Eddie Jones, but as someone who has managed people for a number of years, I was surprised to hear of some of the things Jones has done. 4am text messages etc. Might work for a very short period of time, if you want peoples attention focused, but people can't generally sustain laser like focus 24/7 over an extended period of time.

I'll be surprised if Eddie Jones can't turn it around. He is unorthodox, but a pretty decent coach from most accounts. He probably did have the advantage of taking a team at their absolute lowest point and bring them up on the rise.

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#1979660 19-Mar-2018 10:51

As a neutral observer of the Crusader's vs Highlanders (most here know I'm a Chiefs supporter) I must say I was able to sit back and enjoy a scintillating game of rugby. The biggest thing about that game to me is how much NZ rugby will miss Sopoaga. Maybe not as a first choice, but certainly as a dependable backup. Ben Smith made a big difference to the Highlanders and Tevita Lee seems to be flourishing after going missing for the Blues previously.
Having your best players missing due to injury must have an impact, having Retallick back for the Chiefs on Friday night was proof of that. NZ teams seem to be suffering a huge injury toll for so early in the season, the way they went at it on Saturday night it is no wonder.
Match officials do get it wrong. The high shot on McKenzie was a red card all night long, and that was what the ref was originally heading to before being talked out of it by the TMO. The Crusaders disallowed try could have been a coin toss, but I have seen fumbles that go straight down ruled as knock ons plenty of times. I think the direction to the TMO should include the words "unless there is clear evidence of ........". In that case the try had been awarded and as such i don't think there was valid enough cause to overturn it. Im sure Highlanders supporters dont see it that way.
And there was the aggregious forward pass against the Blues that took the Stormers out of reach. That one was most notable for the local broadcaster deliberately not showing any camera angles that would bring it to light until after the conversion.

I think we need to acknowledge that people in this forum are cheerleaders for 'their' teams and that eye patches of various colours are firmly in place. With that in mind, maybe we should all 'play the ball, not the man' to use a sporting analogy.

Edit; fixed typos.

And post edit, edit: England lost, ha ha. Fifth in the championship (Italy last) ha ha.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

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#1979669 19-Mar-2018 10:58

I agree on McKenzie, the Bulls player has been cited though, right?

I was going to comment on another example of a Blues player moving elsewhere and flourishing. It's evidence that there is something very badly wrong at the Blues. It feels a little like that phrase "where good players go to die" without it actually being quite that severe obviously. Lee has been playing some amazing Rugby and he was excellent Saturday night. He has some crazy pace.

I agree that the NZ on NZ derbies are actually very brutal. It doesn't seem that intense in SA v SA games etc.

I will say that whilst Sunwolves are still losing most of their games, it is encouraging to see them playing some fantastic Rugby. The skill levels are very high. They gave the Lions a decent scare. I see their value in the competition, though maybe not as much as a Pacific team.

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#1979688 19-Mar-2018 11:15

I thought on first viewing the try by the Crusaders included a knock-on. The Highlanders were also close to scoring additional tries a couple of times and Lima missed an easy penalty. The game could have gone either way. I thought the ref was a little too officious at times. But the players put on a good Southern derby. I think the difference was the Higlander's defence. At one point the Canterbury had missed 5 tackles to the Highlanders 0.

I did get a chuckle from the irony of Hunt's bicycle kick right at the end.

Mike

networkn

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#1979704 19-Mar-2018 11:21

I thought the HL were good on defence, also agree on the kick at the end, was quite a contrast to the heartbreaking drop kick last season. He will wish for that back.

I am hoping that the Crusaders get sorted for next week and give the Bulls a hiding next week.

Hammerer

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#1979935 19-Mar-2018 16:02

networkn:

Hammerer:

networkn, I can see tukapa1's point about the Crusaders. Your "one-eyed" response is such a clear example of what he said.

...

Heh, well seems I can't win. Apparently, the only comments I am allowed to make are ones that are either negative about the Crusaders or positive towards other teams. I watch a lot of Rugby, I support a lot of teams. I comment on a lot of games too, not just Crusaders games, I do this to ENCOURAGE discussion. Sorry it's seen as spam.

Let's calm this down rather than amping it up.

I wasn't criticising you for supporting the Crusaders in the forum. I was primarily commenting on your previous post and that alone.

Nor was I saying it your posts are spam. The other guy said that. I don't have any problem with the number or quality of your posts.

Your "one-eyed" response in the post I pointed to was characterised by:

Assuming that any dislike or criticism of the Crusaders or any feature of that team must be irrational and unjustified, e.g. "Go calm yourself down. Your irrational hatred for the Crusaders (and me it would seem) is what is tiresome."
Attacking the person rather than the argument, e.g. "Share with the group your knowledge which is obviously far superior to the rest? Educate me, knower of all."
Feeling superior and entitled to say things like "Oh, give it a rest already! Boy what a prize rant!"

I thought that tuapaka1 had some home truths for you to reflect upon.

I'm also thinking about them with respect to myself because it is too easy to put down other people and the teams they value. I'd much rather make a positive statement about any team - I hope that is obvious in recent posts. Where we disagree I hope that I've been polite in response because I have no dislike of you or ill will towards you.

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