Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2038905 16-Jun-2018 23:37

Jordie Barret played well, so did Ben Smith. I hope the French win the next test, so that we lift our game and discipline for the Rugby Championship and the RWC next year.

Hammerer

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#2038976 17-Jun-2018 09:32

networkn:

Hammerer:

Sounds like I won't be watching the recording later. Thanks for the advance warning.

Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil a result for anyone, I tend to avoid this thread until I have watched any games I don't know the result of.

I wasn't complaining. Quite the opposite. I was disappointed that I couldn't watch it live but now I'm much happier that I missed it.

If I didn't want spoilers then I too would have stayed away from this topic.

Handle9

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#2038981 17-Jun-2018 09:37

Generally I thought it was a poor game all round. The French were willing and their pack was excellent on the ground but woeful at lineout time. The All Blacks knocked off after the red card. Without Barrett and Reid there appeared to be an absence of leadership.

It also emphasizes to me the gape between Whitelock/Retalick and our other locks. Barrett is willing but the combination of Whitelock and Retalick is one of the best locking combinations New Zealand has ever had. Retalick has a huge physical impact and Whitelock has a massive workrate and is technically incredibly strong. They are the perfect locking combination.

You can also see the difference between peak Dane Coles and Codie Taylor in this type of game. Taylor is excellent when the pack has dominance but he doesn't bring the same kind of physical presence that Coles does. He's absolutely worthy of a test place with his set piece work being excellent but we do miss Coles physical presence. The reality of test match rugby is that you need to hurt the opposition to win. This doesn't mean foul play, this means causing pain to the opposition when you carry the ball, hit rucks and tackling.

I thought the discipline wasn't that bad - most of the penalties we breakdown related due to not being accurate, not from foul play. The All Blacks aren't being penalized for head high tackles like they have been in previous years, they were latte to rucks and either came in at an angle or got pinged on the deck. I do wonder whether Mackenzie wasn't organizing as well as Barrett so the forwards didn't know where the targets were.

I felt that Perenara shouldn't have been given a yellow - there was no ruck formed and he was on his feet so appeared to have every right to contest the ball. I've just re-watched it and there was only the tackled french player and Perenara - no arriving player caused a ruck to be formed therefore there was no offside line.

The biggest concern for me was the defense. We are back to being vulnerable around the fringes, especially with inside balls and cutters. I believe it's a coaching problem, this has been an issue for a couple of years now.

tdgeek

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#2038984 17-Jun-2018 09:58

Hammerer:

Sounds like I won't be watching the recording later. Thanks for the advance warning.

I turned it off after the red card. To me, that was a possible semi competitive game, but then will be a walk over, so surprised at the scoreline when I checked before bed. The red card was a bit harsh, not intentional, but rules are rules, so no choice for the ref

GV27

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#2039004 17-Jun-2018 10:59

tdgeek:

I turned it off after the red card. To me, that was a possible semi competitive game, but then will be a walk over, so surprised at the scoreline when I checked before bed. The red card was a bit harsh, not intentional, but rules are rules, so no choice for the ref

Honestly I thought the card was fair. There were instances in the last game where the french players had charged into the contest area so hard that their only way of staying under the ball when it came down was to take the other player out in the air. It's blatantly unsafe and that's what the rule is there to stop.

It's designed so that if you're going into a contest, you get under the ball and then jump. Otherwise you can just run blindly at someone and as long as you don't get seen to be looking at them, you're off the hook. That doesn't gel with the idea of protecting against concussions and the fact Barrett failed his HIA tells me that letting players off the hook for not looking isn't going protect anyone at all.

It also confuses and angers me about how these are policed. If someone sticks their hand out as a reflex action, it shouldn't lessen the severity of putting them in a dangerous position. You've still committed the act of foul play, and it's the same act whether they land on their head or shoulder.

Also, I'd like it noted that prior to the card one of the Barretts was caught up in same sort of aggressive challenge but stuck his arm out, so it wasn't deemed as serious. And after the card, there were two incredible challenges in the air where both players actually jumped and got hands to the ball, in complete contrast to what happened in the previous incident. Once the French knew they were going to be pinged for it, they started actually competing for the ball in the air and it looked very different to just blindly charging into the opposing player *under* the ball.

tdgeek

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#2039009 17-Jun-2018 11:12

Fair enough, rules are rules. They need 100% consistency, and if that means more cards and more frequent third umpire intervention, and the spectators get annoyed, too bad.

Handle9

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#2039096 17-Jun-2018 13:17

Watching the England - South Africa replay England jump up and down for every penalty and mistake by South Africa. They also spend half the game screaming at the referee for cards and penalties. It's not hard to see why they are struggling. They are spending so much energy on things they can't control no wonder they are falling apart.

Eddie Jones really is a coach that you only want for about a year. He just burns sides out with his KPI driven coaching.

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GV27

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#2039119 17-Jun-2018 14:19

Just to speak to the actual quality of the game outside the one incident, did anyone else get the feeling the ABs were completely rattled? There was a lot of off the ball stuff that didn't seem needed, particularly around the fringes as well as some very very borderline highish shots. I'm not sure Shag would be happy with the fact we seem to be getting involved in stuff off the ball that we really don't need to. All it will take is one zealous ref come WC time and it will be 1999 all over again.

afe66

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#2039141 17-Jun-2018 15:30

Simple rule.

Only the captains can talk to/at referee.

Otherwise penalty and 10m further up the field.

Play the game, dont stand there waving your arms around at the ref. Aaron Smith does this _alot_.

One of the things I _really_ hate about football is the players trying to influence the referee's. Have you ever seen a ref change their decision after 3 players run at him?

Running at ref, protesting should be instant yellow card in soccer and after you have had 3-4 players sent off and lose a world cup game maybe things will change.

networkn

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#2039252 17-Jun-2018 20:28

I am starting to get a bit of a negative opinion toward some of the AB's. Sam Canes nonsense should have been punished. What a Twit! If they spent as much time concentrating on playing rugby as this short of horsepoo, we would have won by 80 points, which is what I thought was going to happen.

Gregor Pauls article disputing the red card was a disgrace. It was red every day of the week under the current law.

networkn

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#2039376 18-Jun-2018 08:39

Hammerer:

I wasn't complaining. Quite the opposite. I was disappointed that I couldn't watch it live but now I'm much happier that I missed it.

If I didn't want spoilers then I too would have stayed away from this topic.

I figured as much, but thought I'd cover my bases.

networkn

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#2039379 18-Jun-2018 08:42

One thing I didn't mention because I was seeing through a Red mist after this pathetic performance in the weekend is what a great job DM did at 9 after TJP got binned! His passing was crisp and he was getting to the rucks quickly, and his communication was good too. What is strange is that none of that was particularly true when he was playing at 10 in the same game!

I don't feel he has any business at 10. IMO though he has played some 10, or even a lot of 10, it's not where his power lies. He needs time and space to make decisions and build up his speed.

Jas777

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#2039452 18-Jun-2018 10:03

GV27:

Just to speak to the actual quality of the game outside the one incident, did anyone else get the feeling the ABs were completely rattled? There was a lot of off the ball stuff that didn't seem needed, particularly around the fringes as well as some very very borderline highish shots. I'm not sure Shag would be happy with the fact we seem to be getting involved in stuff off the ball that we really don't need to. All it will take is one zealous ref come WC time and it will be 1999 all over again.

The quality of the game was what I kind of expected. You tend to get only 1 of the 3 games in these series being top notch.

Now whether that is down to the opposition or the All Blacks or the weather or the fact these games are in the middle of the Super rugby who knows.

Hopefully with the change of the window the quality will improve.

networkn

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#2039455 18-Jun-2018 10:06

About the only positive thing to come out of this for me, is that our newbies are learning adversity and how to overcome it.

Hopefully, the AB's don't break the tradition of never having two terrible games in a row.

networkn

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#2039512 18-Jun-2018 10:58

One thing I saw Steve Hansen say I thought was interesting, was perhaps he expected too much from the front row, who with the exception of Taylor, are light on game time. Last week was a big game for them. Problem is we don't have enough quality props and hookers (Harris is a long way from Taylor IMO), to swap them out and give Franks and Moody a rest.

I suspect training this week will be lighter, and the reserves will be asked to step up a level. May see earlier substitutions in the tight 5 than usual perhaps.

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