Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2092430 18-Sep-2018 11:50

Ive watched most of them, but not all. You can play as well as your team can, and how the opposition allows. AUS looked excellent against us before they tired, then we rolled them. We looked great, and we were, but on that one specific example, they gassed and made it look easy. Credit to us on that occasion, but it became one sided. Two lower teams not playing well will leave opportunities open. Off course they still need to take them. NZ vs RSA should have been very one sided, it wasnt. My opinion (sole one clearly :-) ) is that they opposed us very very well, narrowed the gap, and whether they won by 2 or we did, their game plan succeeded. Due to their tactics. Not in my opinion due to AB's not turning up. AB's always turn up, thats why they are an iconic international team.

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clevedon

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#2092444 18-Sep-2018 12:05

tdgeek:Ive watched most of them, but not all.

I find that hard to believe.

Previously you said you weren't even going to watch an AB's game because you said we were going to walk over the opposition.

I watch every game the AB'S play, every Rugby Championship game, every six nations game, every game that SA and Aussie play in their mid year home series and every Northern tour game that the RC teams play in Europe at the end of the year.

So unfortunately I can't take much value from someone that couldn't be bothered to watch even an All Blacks game.

tdgeek

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#2092447 18-Sep-2018 12:14

clevedon:

tdgeek:Ive watched most of them, but not all.

I find that hard to believe.

Previously you said you weren't even going to watch an AB's game because you said we were going to walk over the opposition.

I watch every game the AB'S play, every Rugby Championship game, every six nations game, every game that SA and Aussie play in their mid year home series and every Northern tour game that the RC teams play in Europe at the end of the year.

So unfortunately I can't take much value from someone that couldn't be bothered to watch even an All Blacks game.

That's fine.

As I'm not agreeing with the excuses given, my comments are not valued anyway, I know that, that's no issue. I can have my opinion, and do

trig42

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#2092450 18-Sep-2018 12:22

I don't believe it was the ABs not turning up that was the issue.

I do believe the Springboks threw everything they had at it, and they employed a game plan to try and slow down the ruck ball and disrupt quick play from the breakdowns. Most of it was done legally, but they did get penalised a lot for it (and I believe another referee may have penalised them even more). Nigel Owens is a great ref, and he let the game run, which he always does and it is what makes him a great ref (and the games he refs are usually better games for it). Of course, dropping the ball and throwing interceptable passes (and not kicking the 'easy' goals) does not help. It is all about pressure, and the Boks applied it very well. I enjoyed the game a lot, I just wish it had been us 2 points up at the end :)

The All Blacks will have a plan to counter this sort of play the next time they meet. It is unusual for a team to beat them twice using the same tactics, and I'm sure Steve Hansen will be asking the referee of the next game to police the players coming out the back of the rucks next time round.

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#2092451 18-Sep-2018 12:22

Steve Hansen often makes reference to learning more from a loss than a win. I think had we of won, under the circumstances, we would possibly gone on to cause more harm than good. I don't like to see them lose, but I absoloutely think it's fixable. I only wish they were playing this weekend.

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#2092471 18-Sep-2018 12:40

networkn:

Steve Hansen often makes reference to learning more from a loss than a win. I think had we of won, under the circumstances, we would possibly gone on to cause more harm than good. I don't like to see them lose, but I absoloutely think it's fixable. I only wish they were playing this weekend.

I fully agree. Back in the day when it was tough to beat AUS and RSA, we went nowhere near the unbeatable way it is now, it was tough, but we almost always nailed it. I think a 85%+ maybe back then. Losses happened, and we learnt. Its tough staying at the top, but we did. Just like Federer, beatable

Right now, we are unbeatable, every game is a win as the opposition are just poor. So a win means relatively little to me. No matter how good anyone may say we are, we win, as we have no competition. That's my concern. We may be awesome, or we may just be very good, with a decent gap back to the others, we may need to improve our game but its not obvious as we keep winning. When a team. pre RWC finds a way, we may well be wanting.

I find it hard to rate this team to Richie etc days. It was a lot harder then, than it is now. The win rate is much higher now. As we discussed recently, its hard to improve without good competition.

clevedon

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#2092475 18-Sep-2018 13:03

tdgeek:I fully agree. Back in the day when it was tough to beat AUS and RSA, we went nowhere near the unbeatable way it is now, it was tough, but we almost always nailed it. I think a 85%+ maybe back then.

The win/loss ratio is now is just over 60% to NZ vs SA.

It is favouring NZ a lot more recently, I remember not that long ago it was hovering around 50/50

networkn

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#2092478 18-Sep-2018 13:06

If we are so good and no-one can touch us, isn't that the ultimate goal?

NZR only cares about two things ultimately. One is the RWC, which if you are right, we should romp through, and the Bledisloe Cup, which doesn't really look like going anywhere for the forseeable future.

At the start of the year I said RSA looked like a much improved side from last year, but don't forget the AB's nearly lost the second game. They weren't poor like they were last week, and only won by 1 point.

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#2092480 18-Sep-2018 13:09

clevedon:

tdgeek:I fully agree. Back in the day when it was tough to beat AUS and RSA, we went nowhere near the unbeatable way it is now, it was tough, but we almost always nailed it. I think a 85%+ maybe back then.

The win/loss ratio is now is just over 60% to NZ vs SA.

It is favouring NZ a lot more recently, I remember not that long ago it was hovering around 50/50

Sorry, I was referring to NZ only, against all nations

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#2092535 18-Sep-2018 13:27

networkn:

If we are so good and no-one can touch us, isn't that the ultimate goal?

NZR only cares about two things ultimately. One is the RWC, which if you are right, we should romp through, and the Bledisloe Cup, which doesn't really look like going anywhere for the forseeable future.

At the start of the year I said RSA looked like a much improved side from last year, but don't forget the AB's nearly lost the second game. They weren't poor like they were last week, and only won by 1 point.

It is, yes, and I certainly have no issue with us winning everything. My fingernails have only just come back from the 9-8 RWC years ago. I see us being unbeaten till the RWC final and winning that, as the opposition is weak. My issue is the constant "best team ever" and so on. We aren't that good. Maybe we are, but we beat a low bar of international sides. Well, I'd rather have that than losing, but I cant really be bothered watching an AUS game, after the first, which I didnt. Its great we win, its happy for us that its easy. But IMHO its an artificial situation. Its not like a past great AB side beating more often than not, a great AUS or RSA side.

If we played RSA this weekend , we win, end of story. Why? We look at the game we see what they did to counter us, give them a secret "they planned that bloody well eh" then we re evaluate what we do to nullify it. While rugby is not as elegant as a game of chess, they are not dissimilar. Use strategy to create an opportunity, and to shut them out as they try the same. So we do that and win, as we are the better side by a decent margin. You get games that are closer or wider due to luck, run of the ball, etc. I just see RSA is showing we can be exposed, and thats what they did , in my opinion. "They did", being my key words

You said it's fixable, damn right it is, and not hard. IMO we just turn up and play our game, we win, because we are too good. If my opinion is correct, we can be beaten by a better game plan targeting the right areas, so we fix that. If we had been playing top sides that would have been an ongoing measure to regain the edge. For a long while there has been no need, tinkering was just fine.

We are a target, better now than next year

clevedon

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#2092548 18-Sep-2018 13:44

tdgeek: I see us being unbeaten till the RWC final and winning that, as the opposition is weak.

You write off the world number 2 ranked side (Ireland) and number 4 (England) at your peril on the end of year tour.

80,000 + English fans at the home of Rugby who we haven't played for 4 years and Ireland at home with 50,000 odd fans who beat us two games ago. It will be the back end of our long season, and you reckon they will be weak.

Good luck.

trig42

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#2092550 18-Sep-2018 13:47

clevedon:

tdgeek:I fully agree. Back in the day when it was tough to beat AUS and RSA, we went nowhere near the unbeatable way it is now, it was tough, but we almost always nailed it. I think a 85%+ maybe back then.

The win/loss ratio is now is just over 60% to NZ vs SA.

It is favouring NZ a lot more recently, I remember not that long ago it was hovering around 50/50

It was only after rugby went professional that NZ's win/loss ratio got over 50%. I can remember watching the game in the 90s where we finally got to more wins than losses against them. It hasn't looked back since, but South Africa are by far and away the toughest to beat in ABs history.

clevedon

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#2092552 18-Sep-2018 13:51

trig42:

clevedon:

tdgeek:I fully agree. Back in the day when it was tough to beat AUS and RSA, we went nowhere near the unbeatable way it is now, it was tough, but we almost always nailed it. I think a 85%+ maybe back then.

The win/loss ratio is now is just over 60% to NZ vs SA.

It is favouring NZ a lot more recently, I remember not that long ago it was hovering around 50/50

It was only after rugby went professional that NZ's win/loss ratio got over 50%. I can remember watching the game in the 90s where we finally got to more wins than losses against them. It hasn't looked back since, but South Africa are by far and away the toughest to beat in ABs history.

Yeah, we didn't win a test series in South Africa until 1996

70 odd years it took, the elation/relief on Sean Fitzpatricks face was unforgettable.

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#2092555 18-Sep-2018 13:55

clevedon:

tdgeek: I see us being unbeaten till the RWC final and winning that, as the opposition is weak.

You write off the world number 2 ranked side (Ireland) and number 4 (England) at your peril on the end of year tour.

80,000 + English fans at the home of Rugby who we haven't played for 4 years and Ireland at home with 50,000 odd fans who beat us two games ago. It will be the back end of our long season, and you reckon they will be weak.

Good luck.

Agreed. I expect it to be the hardest end of year tour for a while. I am unsure what to make of England at this stage.

Ireland look the goods, though to be fair one win in 100 years doesn't mean much to me. They have been close quite a few times.

tdgeek

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#2092573 18-Sep-2018 14:31

Ireland, hard to say how good they are. They have nice results, but nothing startling. Two wins in AUS now doesn't look world beating, but its the only real guide. What you will get is passion.

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