Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2097760 27-Sep-2018 21:03

I actually believe that the loss in Wellington will end up being a blessing. I think we needed sharpening up and to appreciate that a win isn't automatic. I expect it will help us treat the scoreboard with more respect and open our minds to other options when it comes to winning, like Drop Goals.

I wouldn't say we were arrogant and complacent, but it wasn't far away without this shock loss.

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tdgeek

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#2097766 27-Sep-2018 21:12

networkn:

I actually believe that the loss in Wellington will end up being a blessing. I think we needed sharpening up and to appreciate that a win isn't automatic. I expect it will help us treat the scoreboard with more respect and open our minds to other options when it comes to winning, like Drop Goals.

I wouldn't say we were arrogant and complacent, but it wasn't far away without this shock loss.

No backlash! Great! I agree fully. We are good, but my issue is we are we good or better, maybe way better but the opposition anywhere isn't much. We might be average and the others are rubbish. Or we are very good, the others (AUS,RSA,ENG) are just good.

Im glad we lost and I am glad we didn't do the DG and win as that might well be seen as a great match, we got up, awesome. But we needed IMHO to be brought back to earth. Reset. Not unbeatable after all. Fix any poor decision making, and so on, As we discussed, if you play anyone who is not great, your game cannot improve. This was a shock loss, a perfect wakeup call. If we smash RSA next time, thats proof. That will also show some arrogance, which if you are always dominant is perfectly natural. As I mentioned earlier here, better now than in a year.

clevedon

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#2097877 28-Sep-2018 08:02

tdgeek: Im glad we lost

You, and all of South Africa.

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#2097880 28-Sep-2018 08:04

clevedon:

tdgeek: Im glad we lost

You, and all of South Africa.

Thats a bit unfair, I gave reasons to the benefits of AB's why I was glad we lost

networkn

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#2097912 28-Sep-2018 08:08

tdgeek:

networkn:

I actually believe that the loss in Wellington will end up being a blessing. I think we needed sharpening up and to appreciate that a win isn't automatic. I expect it will help us treat the scoreboard with more respect and open our minds to other options when it comes to winning, like Drop Goals.

I wouldn't say we were arrogant and complacent, but it wasn't far away without this shock loss.

No backlash! Great! I agree fully. We are good, but my issue is we are we good or better, maybe way better but the opposition anywhere isn't much. We might be average and the others are rubbish. Or we are very good, the others (AUS,RSA,ENG) are just good.

Im glad we lost and I am glad we didn't do the DG and win as that might well be seen as a great match, we got up, awesome. But we needed IMHO to be brought back to earth. Reset. Not unbeatable after all. Fix any poor decision making, and so on, As we discussed, if you play anyone who is not great, your game cannot improve. This was a shock loss, a perfect wakeup call. If we smash RSA next time, thats proof. That will also show some arrogance, which if you are always dominant is perfectly natural. As I mentioned earlier here, better now than in a year.

If you play to the level of your opponent and we are usually beating people by 20 points, and we have gotten better pretty consistently over the past 5 years, I think it's fair to say the opponents aren't as bad as one might think.

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#2097924 28-Sep-2018 08:26

networkn:

If you play to the level of your opponent and we are usually beating people by 20 points, and we have gotten better pretty consistently over the past 5 years, I think it's fair to say the opponents aren't as bad as one might think.

Ok, bad, but not as bad as one would think. But still bad, to a lesser level than my opinion. How would you rate the AB's when it consisted of Richie, Dan and many others who have left in that post RWC exodus? I rate that group higher. If my opinion was correct, and we still win almost every game very comfortably, then the rest have dropped off more than what we have during our rebuild period. Thats where I see it

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#2097964 28-Sep-2018 09:15

The first year after we won the RWC, 2016, we thrashed every opponent by record scores. I don't think our opponents were THAT much weaker, but every team had an exodus of players. We carried on the legacy left by the previous players in my view. At some point, however, we had to evolve our game to stay ahead. That didn't go entirely smoothly and we had a pretty average 2017 in my view, largely to do with the number of injuries we carried and the number of players expected to play out of position. Opposition teams tried to come up with ways to stop us and stealing our time and space has become the best way to do this. We are moving toward structures to cope with this, but it's not finished yet and it's taking time for the players to adjust.

It's remarkable that any team could lose nearly 600 test caps, then continue without batting an eyelid and is a true testament to our culture and coaching, and planning.

I believe we are easily the best team in the world, it's not really that close, but sometimes we will stumble and take that opportunity to learn from it.

Are these AB's as good as the ones that left? I consider RM and DC to be the two greatest players to ever play, so no, not yet. Could they be? Yes, I think it's possible, though I will be surprised if I live to see RM's and DC's records beaten. BB will never get even close to DC's test scoring tally, but anything is possible.

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#2098019 28-Sep-2018 09:49

networkn:

The first year after we won the RWC, 2016, we thrashed every opponent by record scores. I don't think our opponents were THAT much weaker, but every team had an exodus of players. We carried on the legacy left by the previous players in my view. At some point, however, we had to evolve our game to stay ahead. That didn't go entirely smoothly and we had a pretty average 2017 in my view, largely to do with the number of injuries we carried and the number of players expected to play out of position. Opposition teams tried to come up with ways to stop us and stealing our time and space has become the best way to do this. We are moving toward structures to cope with this, but it's not finished yet and it's taking time for the players to adjust.

It's remarkable that any team could lose nearly 600 test caps, then continue without batting an eyelid and is a true testament to our culture and coaching, and planning.

I believe we are easily the best team in the world, it's not really that close, but sometimes we will stumble and take that opportunity to learn from it.

Are these AB's as good as the ones that left? I consider RM and DC to be the two greatest players to ever play, so no, not yet. Could they be? Yes, I think it's possible, though I will be surprised if I live to see RM's and DC's records beaten. BB will never get even close to DC's test scoring tally, but anything is possible.

Pretty much agree. Pondering over results by Scotland and Australia it's bizarre reading. Generally, the rankings have a strong bearing on results with the obvious underdog wins happening occasionally. But any one can beat anyone, and do. Either they are even, or they are not that good, so even on those grounds. Its a funny old time. I can only assume that many teams have had exoduses to Japan and the like for better paydays

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#2098021 28-Sep-2018 09:57

I don't see us losing either of the next 2 tests, I think we will be pretty fired up. I suspect if we do, it's going to be because combinations aren't set. SBW right into the starting team after 6 months off is an interesting call, but there are probably 3-4 players in the AB's you'd back to perform in that situation and he is one of them.

I suspect he may get just 4 minutes before ALB is called up. Hopefully nothing happens to Crotty and he isn't required to go 80 minutes, a big ask for anyone first game back.

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#2098437 29-Sep-2018 09:12

I am being lazy, but wondered how the bonus points work in the Mitre10 cup?

kiwi_64

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#2098443 29-Sep-2018 09:58

I understand points are: 4 points for a win, 2 points for a draw and 1 point for scoring 4 tries or for losing by 7 points or less

Dingbatt

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#2098820 30-Sep-2018 16:32

Another Rugby Championship wrapped up.
The Pumas played below their best, or weren't allowed to play their best.
Glad to see SBW get a run. He still has a bit of that magic about his play and he just happened to be the sacrificial lamb when the yellow was dished out.
The French ref had a good game with a few head scratching moments. Sanity seemed to prevail when it came to what constituted foul play. I'm sure some of the same plays in the past would have led to yellow cards, but instead were just penalties. But some of those really made me wonder. How was Barrett penalised for a no arms tackle when one arm was around the player's waist? And the Argentinian try, where despite being told by both the assistant referee and the TMO that the ball was grounded short and then the second movement was short and the third movement finally rolled the ball over the line, so No Try, the try was awarded.
I would hate to think that the refs think they need to level the playing field because the ABs are too dominant for their own good. Much like the decision in the third Lions Test last year. Where was that ref from again?

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#2098833 30-Sep-2018 17:35

I feel that if they go to the TMO, then the TMO's decision should be binding, otherwise what's the point.

They might as well just ask the ground staff to show replays on the big screen so they can make the decision themselves..

networkn

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#2098866 30-Sep-2018 18:34

The reffing was solid bar about 2 things. The try that was allowed despite the 3 objections etc.

SBW looked the goods. Massively solid effort in the scrum, also the lineout despite a shaky start.

An awesome defensive effort, much improved. Was surprised Ioane couldn't get away from the ankle tap.

I think we are ready for SA in SA, and I expect we should win. Whilst SA was good defensively, we have the weapons to defeat it, so long as we don't run out of legs. We will have a strong team to face them and I believe it's going to be hard for the Boks to put up 3 in a row with that level of intensity.

I think the game between Australia and SA was good as well. SA defensively look outstanding. Australia on attack not so much. I am starting to despair for them.

tdgeek

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#2098900 30-Sep-2018 19:35

A meh game at best. ARG looked nice the first few minutes, then it became the usual. ARG not good enough, AB's too good. At no time did ARG look they they can string together phases. They had their moments, but never ever looked likely. At one point IIRC we had 28 on the board, minus a 100% luck uncontrollable ball try. ARG was 17 or so? Thats a narrow margin and flattering to them and poor from us. We had errors galore. If we struck a better team, there is not that much in it. yes, we are the best, but from an average lot.

Someone there said the other day, I think we will beat ARG. Or I am sure we will. It was never a debate. TAB had microscopic odds. Same with the RC before one game was played. It was never in doubt. I just dont get the "we should beat "x" team. Its just hiding the arrogance.

But as we have seen the AB's are very beatable. This is not a classic side. We are they best of an average lot and we haven't exactly played supreme. The end of year tour will be interesting. But it wont show that we are the best team ever, as Gifford or Reason claimed. A long way from that

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