Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1282897 14-Apr-2015 12:58

LazyDr: The current coaching staff do have a history of sticking with incumbents despite Super 15 form, as evidenced last year with the likes of Nonu etc, so would surprise me if they had Slade as number 1 on their list currently..

A lot of players lift their game in the Black Jersey, the likes of Dagg and Nonu are very notable changes. I don't think Ben Smith is having the same outstanding run, nor Fekitoa this season. Teams have worked out how to neutralize them somewhat. Personally Dagg's massive boot (and the fact he is actually a VERY good goal kicker) gives him the #15 jersey and BS should go to 14. I don't think Cruden lifts the same way personally.

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#1282911 14-Apr-2015 13:10

I agree, he doesn't seem to lift, but is by far the most experienced in tough tests, which will count for a lot. Personally I rate Barrett, but haven't seen any of his form this season so can't really comment

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#1282913 14-Apr-2015 13:12

LazyDr: I agree, he doesn't seem to lift, but is by far the most experienced in tough tests, which will count for a lot. Personally I rate Barrett, but haven't seen any of his form this season so can't really comment

I have watched a fair bit of Super 15 this year, and the hurricanes look good, but barret isn't having the same stellar year he had last year in my opinion.

I presume when you say most experienced, you are excluding DC, because next to DC AC is a baby :)

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#1282918 14-Apr-2015 13:16

networkn:
LazyDr: The current coaching staff do have a history of sticking with incumbents despite Super 15 form, as evidenced last year with the likes of Nonu etc, so would surprise me if they had Slade as number 1 on their list currently..

A lot of players lift their game in the Black Jersey, the likes of Dagg and Nonu are very notable changes. I don't think Ben Smith is having the same outstanding run, nor Fekitoa this season. Teams have worked out how to neutralize them somewhat. Personally Dagg's massive boot (and the fact he is actually a VERY good goal kicker) gives him the #15 jersey and BS should go to 14. I don't think Cruden lifts the same way personally.

Ben Smith is as steady as ever. There has been a lot all year but the rest of the team has been much better in comparison which means he's less of a stand out.

I've also been watched Slade and Smith and I'd rather rely on Smith than Slade. The Crusaders game showed that Read thought Smith was the greatest threat in the backline running towards him. Smith evaded tackles, stood up with three tacklers on him, scored a Christian Cullen-style try, etc.

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#1282921 14-Apr-2015 13:26

Hammerer:
networkn:
LazyDr: The current coaching staff do have a history of sticking with incumbents despite Super 15 form, as evidenced last year with the likes of Nonu etc, so would surprise me if they had Slade as number 1 on their list currently..

A lot of players lift their game in the Black Jersey, the likes of Dagg and Nonu are very notable changes. I don't think Ben Smith is having the same outstanding run, nor Fekitoa this season. Teams have worked out how to neutralize them somewhat. Personally Dagg's massive boot (and the fact he is actually a VERY good goal kicker) gives him the #15 jersey and BS should go to 14. I don't think Cruden lifts the same way personally.

Ben Smith is as steady as ever. There has been a lot all year but the rest of the team has been much better in comparison which means he's less of a stand out.

I've also been watched Slade and Smith and I'd rather rely on Smith than Slade. The Crusaders game showed that Read thought Smith was the greatest threat in the backline running towards him. Smith evaded tackles, stood up with three tacklers on him, scored a Christian Cullen-style try, etc.

Umm Slade is a 10, 12 15, and 14, Smith plays 15, 13, and 14.

Of course Slade wouldn't be preferred over Smith for 15 or 14, but he would be considered high value stock for the fact he can play all the other positions (I have also seen him play 9 and 13 well for the record).

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#1282935 14-Apr-2015 13:48

networkn:
LazyDr: I agree, he doesn't seem to lift, but is by far the most experienced in tough tests, which will count for a lot. Personally I rate Barrett, but haven't seen any of his form this season so can't really comment

I have watched a fair bit of Super 15 this year, and the hurricanes look good, but barret isn't having the same stellar year he had last year in my opinion.

I presume when you say most experienced, you are excluding DC, because next to DC AC is a baby :)

Yes, sadly I have written off DC in all honesty. Would love to be proven wrong, I've had a lot of respect for him right from the early days, but his current run of injuries continues to mount, and game time is pretty scarce

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#1282936 14-Apr-2015 13:49

networkn:
Hammerer:
networkn:
LazyDr: The current coaching staff do have a history of sticking with incumbents despite Super 15 form, as evidenced last year with the likes of Nonu etc, so would surprise me if they had Slade as number 1 on their list currently..

A lot of players lift their game in the Black Jersey, the likes of Dagg and Nonu are very notable changes. I don't think Ben Smith is having the same outstanding run, nor Fekitoa this season. Teams have worked out how to neutralize them somewhat. Personally Dagg's massive boot (and the fact he is actually a VERY good goal kicker) gives him the #15 jersey and BS should go to 14. I don't think Cruden lifts the same way personally.

Ben Smith is as steady as ever. There has been a lot all year but the rest of the team has been much better in comparison which means he's less of a stand out.

I've also been watched Slade and Smith and I'd rather rely on Smith than Slade. The Crusaders game showed that Read thought Smith was the greatest threat in the backline running towards him. Smith evaded tackles, stood up with three tacklers on him, scored a Christian Cullen-style try, etc.

Umm Slade is a 10, 12 15, and 14, Smith plays 15, 13, and 14.

Of course Slade wouldn't be preferred over Smith for 15 or 14, but he would be considered high value stock for the fact he can play all the other positions (I have also seen him play 9 and 13 well for the record).

I wasn't comparing them in the same position. Nor were you when you made comparisons. I was saying that Smith still looks outstanding and would rate more highly than Slade.

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#1282937 14-Apr-2015 13:51

LazyDr:
networkn:
LazyDr: I agree, he doesn't seem to lift, but is by far the most experienced in tough tests, which will count for a lot. Personally I rate Barrett, but haven't seen any of his form this season so can't really comment

I have watched a fair bit of Super 15 this year, and the hurricanes look good, but barret isn't having the same stellar year he had last year in my opinion.

I presume when you say most experienced, you are excluding DC, because next to DC AC is a baby :)

Yes, sadly I have written off DC in all honesty. Would love to be proven wrong, I've had a lot of respect for him right from the early days, but his current run of injuries continues to mount, and game time is pretty scarce

In his last 8 games he has thrown 3 passes which have been intercepted, very frustrating. I won't write off DC yet. Another couple of games without injury I'll be a lot happier, and he is playing every week now. I think he should be ok. We don't NEED NEED Him now, which is a nice position to be in.

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#1283038 14-Apr-2015 16:25

blair003: You guys realise realise slade has hardly been available since the last world cup right? Since then if I'm not mistaken he has broken his jaw twice and his leg once. He may have also been rested with concussion and had a knee issue. He only really started coming back into form fairly recently - perhaps last year?

that's nothing compared to dan carter :D

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#1286663 18-Apr-2015 08:52

After watching the Chiefs dismantle the Crusaders 26-9 last night I have grave fears for the All Blacks this year. A forward pack full of current ABs made to look ordinary, inside backs (one ex, two current ABs) that looked bereft of a game plan and a master kicker whose aim deserted him at a vital stage.
Major fumbles by the usually sure handed McCaw and Read didn't help. Neither did Ellis' insistance on the kick from the back of the scrum when it clearly wasn't working. The game plan of 'get it to Nadolo and he will score' didn't come off, with him reportedly not even touching the ball in the first half!
The game was obviously being played at a frenetic pace, certainly if the number of times the referee had to consult his support staff was anything to go by. He yellow carded Cane for sacking the halfback before he touched the ball when in fact the player he tackled wasn't the halfback, he was the hooker who had detached from the back of the ruck and bent to pick up the ball. Penalty, yes, yellow card, debatable. Luckily, because of the Crusader's off night, it didn't cost the Chiefs. Tamiafuna's obstruction of Crockett that led to the first try being disallowed was silly. He didn't need to obstruct him, because he was going in the wrong direction anyway. It was a great move, spoiled by that indescretion.
Commentary on the game in the media so far has included calling the Crusaders "Dad's Army" (NewstalkZB) and "virtually every Chiefs player outperforming his opposite, including Cane over McCaw" (NZHerald).
The whole game was summed up by Liam Squire's try. Carter fails to find touch with a clearing kick, Marshall runs it back at them with a brilliant line towards the corner, a cutback pass to Nanai-Williams that wrong footed about five defenders and then the offload in the tackle to Squire for him to score.
Marshall and Lowe had outstanding games. Isn't Tasman part of the Crusaders franchise?

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#1286682 18-Apr-2015 09:29

Not sure I'd call it a dismantling (The first game was) but there was something wrong with the Crusaders last night, very wrong. It's rare to see them looking so lethargic and more concerning that Blackadder didn't seem that worried at half time. It just felt like they decided that they didn't care if they lost. I do get the impression that the team has either been told or believes that they have a MONSTER year in front of them and they aren't going to try too hard for fear of having nothing left for the World Cup.

I can't recall a time I've seen Andy Ellis kick out on the full, and last night I think he did it three times. Tom Taylor was one of the only players who seemed to WANT to go forward.

Re Yellow Card for Cane, it was 100% deserved. The Crusaders had just made a 50m break and had they of had fast ball had a very good chance of scoring (one of the very few all game). The halfback is not necessarily the #9, but any person who picks the ball off the ground at the bottom of a ruck or scrum, (nominated is the term).

Tameifuna continues to be the Chiefs biggest penalty magnet, I really dislike him and the way he plays, he was fairly lucky not to get a card himself for the penalties and cynical way he plays. I have grave concerns for the All Blacks if Rennie Coaches them, for the negative way he coaches his team to play.

The Crusaders made the Chiefs look better than they were to my thinking, though their defence reminds me of the Crusaders at the moment.

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#1286711 18-Apr-2015 10:02

Firstly this is obviously going to be Red/Yellow/Black eyepatch vs. Red/Black eyepatch and I fully concede my comments are made as a long time Chiefs supporter.

networkn: Not sure I'd call it a dismantling (The first game was) but there was something wrong with the Crusaders last night, very wrong. It's rare to see them looking so lethargic and more concerning that Blackadder didn't seem that worried at half time. It just felt like they decided that they didn't care if they lost. I do get the impression that the team has either been told or believes that they have a MONSTER year in front of them and they aren't going to try too hard for fear of having nothing left for the World Cup.

Dismantling was a phrase used in the NewstalkZB commentary. Are you suggesting that the Crusaders have been told to take it easy in a 'monster year' when the more successful NZ franchises (Hurricanes, Highlanders and Chiefs) have been told to "go hard"?

Tom Taylor was one of the only players who seemed to WANT to go forward

. I barely recall his name mentioned more than about three times. Taufua was the one with the go-forward in the 'saders backline.

Re Yellow Card for Cane, it was 100% deserved....... The halfback is not necessarily the #9, but any person who picks the ball off the ground at the bottom of a ruck or scrum, (nominated is the term).

Is he still the halfback if he is part of the ruck that detaches and then picks up the ball? Would seem to me that's more of a 'number 8' play. But I will admit I don't know the rules well enough.

Tameifuna continues to be the Chiefs biggest penalty magnet, I really dislike him and the way he plays, he was fairly lucky not to get a card himself for the penalties and cynical way he plays.

Yes I agree he is a magnet. Particularly with NZ refs but in the same way as McCaw is a penalty magnet in the eyes of South African refs. Don't get me wrong, Tamiafuna is not in the same league as McCaw, but his size makes him stand out, and if you look at the stats all bar one of his penalties last night were for scrum or ruck infringements, which are a lottery at the best of times.

I have grave concerns for the All Blacks if Rennie Coaches them, for the negative way he coaches his team to play.

Such a negative strategy that they outscored the Crusaders by three open field tries to none? Blackadder needs to be replaced. Bring back Robbie I say.

Addendum: No comment about Carter's abysmal kicking performance?

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blair003

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#1286712 18-Apr-2015 10:03

networkn: Not sure I'd call it a dismantling (The first game was) but there was something wrong with the Crusaders last night, very wrong. It's rare to see them looking so lethargic and more concerning that Blackadder didn't seem that worried at half time. It just felt like they decided that they didn't care if they lost. I do get the impression that the team has either been told or believes that they have a MONSTER year in front of them and they aren't going to try too hard for fear of having nothing left for the World Cup.

I can't recall a time I've seen Andy Ellis kick out on the full, and last night I think he did it three times. Tom Taylor was one of the only players who seemed to WANT to go forward.

Re Yellow Card for Cane, it was 100% deserved. The Crusaders had just made a 50m break and had they of had fast ball had a very good chance of scoring (one of the very few all game). The halfback is not necessarily the #9, but any person who picks the ball off the ground at the bottom of a ruck or scrum, (nominated is the term).

Tameifuna continues to be the Chiefs biggest penalty magnet, I really dislike him and the way he plays, he was fairly lucky not to get a card himself for the penalties and cynical way he plays. I have grave concerns for the All Blacks if Rennie Coaches them, for the negative way he coaches his team to play.

The Crusaders made the Chiefs look better than they were to my thinking, though their defence reminds me of the Crusaders at the moment.

Seriously? You are the epitome of a one-eyed red and black fan.

One team last night was trying to use the ball at every opportunity and played some good rugby, and one team was trying to kick goals and looked devoid of attacking ideas right from the start. And for some reason you'd have grave concerns if the coach of the former team were to coach the AB's? Shouldn't you be admonishing the coach of the latter?

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#1286737 18-Apr-2015 11:12

Dingbatt: After watching the Chiefs dismantle the Crusaders 26-9 last night I have grave fears for the All Blacks this year. A forward pack full of current ABs made to look ordinary, inside backs (one ex, two current ABs) that looked bereft of a game plan and a master kicker whose aim deserted him at a vital stage.
Major fumbles by the usually sure handed McCaw and Read didn't help. Neither did Ellis' insistance on the kick from the back of the scrum when it clearly wasn't working. The game plan of 'get it to Nadolo and he will score' didn't come off, with him reportedly not even touching the ball in the first half!
The game was obviously being played at a frenetic pace, certainly if the number of times the referee had to consult his support staff was anything to go by. He yellow carded Cane for sacking the halfback before he touched the ball when in fact the player he tackled wasn't the halfback, he was the hooker who had detached from the back of the ruck and bent to pick up the ball. Penalty, yes, yellow card, debatable. Luckily, because of the Crusader's off night, it didn't cost the Chiefs. Tamiafuna's obstruction of Crockett that led to the first try being disallowed was silly. He didn't need to obstruct him, because he was going in the wrong direction anyway. It was a great move, spoiled by that indescretion.
Commentary on the game in the media so far has included calling the Crusaders "Dad's Army" (NewstalkZB) and "virtually every Chiefs player outperforming his opposite, including Cane over McCaw" (NZHerald).
The whole game was summed up by Liam Squire's try. Carter fails to find touch with a clearing kick, Marshall runs it back at them with a brilliant line towards the corner, a cutback pass to Nanai-Williams that wrong footed about five defenders and then the offload in the tackle to Squire for him to score.
Marshall and Lowe had outstanding games. Isn't Tasman part of the Crusaders franchise?

you think they peaked 2 years too early?

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#1286754 18-Apr-2015 11:49

joker97: you think they peaked 2 years too early?

The All Blacks?

I hope not, but we have been guilty in the past of holding on to old warhorses when they should have been put out to pasture. I believe Hanson and Co are too savvy for that.

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