Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2215816 12-Apr-2019 15:13

MileHighKiwi:

As a drunkard I can confirm that I am not offended by Folau's criticism of people like me.

I asked a gay friend of mine he if was offended. "hell no" was his response. He described it as a stupid thing to say, but said it didn't make him feel descriminated against. He did say it helps he doesn't believe in hell though.

Personally I think the response from the media and our celebs (including our PM) is a bit over the top.

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#2215853 12-Apr-2019 16:12

networkn:

MileHighKiwi:

As a drunkard I can confirm that I am not offended by Folau's criticism of people like me.

I asked a gay friend of mine he if was offended. "hell no" was his response. He described it as a stupid thing to say, but said it didn't make him feel descriminated against. He did say it helps he doesn't believe in hell though.

Personally I think the response from the media and our celebs (including our PM) is a bit over the top.

I believe the reaction by Rugby Australia, NRL, Jacinda Ardern and other public folk has been spot on. We do not need bigotry of any kind to be allowed. He will get what he deserves.

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#2215859 12-Apr-2019 16:27

invisibleman18:
I don't know, I mean, I obviously don't agree with his statements and think they are disgusting. But something about talking about "inclusiveness" while sacking and banishing someone for their religious views doesn't sit quite right. Unless he's gone as far as making actual threats or carried out action against the people he opposes (admit I've not followed it in great depth).

He's not being sacked for his religious views. He's completely free to believe whatever he wants and worship whomever he wants. There has been no call to ban his religion.

He's being sacked for publically promoting fringe views that condem gay people for being gay.

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#2215861 12-Apr-2019 16:29

MikeB4:
networkn:

MileHighKiwi:

As a drunkard I can confirm that I am not offended by Folau's criticism of people like me.

I asked a gay friend of mine he if was offended. "hell no" was his response. He described it as a stupid thing to say, but said it didn't make him feel descriminated against. He did say it helps he doesn't believe in hell though.

Personally I think the response from the media and our celebs (including our PM) is a bit over the top.

I believe the reaction by Rugby Australia, NRL, Jacinda Ardern and other public folk has been spot on. We do not need bigotry of any kind to be allowed. He will get what he deserves.

I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

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Handle9

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#2215862 12-Apr-2019 16:31

Technofreak:
MikeB4:
networkn:

MileHighKiwi:

As a drunkard I can confirm that I am not offended by Folau's criticism of people like me.

I asked a gay friend of mine he if was offended. "hell no" was his response. He described it as a stupid thing to say, but said it didn't make him feel descriminated against. He did say it helps he doesn't believe in hell though.

Personally I think the response from the media and our celebs (including our PM) is a bit over the top.

I believe the reaction by Rugby Australia, NRL, Jacinda Ardern and other public folk has been spot on. We do not need bigotry of any kind to be allowed. He will get what he deserves.

I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

At this point you are trolling. You don't have to agree but it's self evident and already been explained.

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#2215875 12-Apr-2019 17:02

Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

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#2215892 12-Apr-2019 17:50

MikeB4:

Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

IANAL but as I see it, discrimination is illegal. Bigotry isn't. AR and NRL have chosen to kick him to touch as they don't want their brand tainted by passively supporting his bigoted views.AR took the risk with him, for fair reasons, and he let them down again, so as an article I just read says, he is unemployable. He has rushed to visit AR to rescue his career. There are pics of him in deep discussions at a cafe today, another laughing. Its fair for some to say he can say what he believes. I can't argue against that. So he has said some uncool stuff that's not illegal, and his employer has dumped him, thats fair also.

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Technofreak

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#2215897 12-Apr-2019 18:05

MikeB4:
Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

I have worked it out, I had it worked out prior to my last post. He does have strong beliefs, unreasonable maybe maybe not, but I haven't seen anything where he has expressed dislike of these people. Perhaps you have but I haven't, hence asking for elaboration. Having dislike for their way of life doesnt necessarily translate to dislike of that person.

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#2215984 12-Apr-2019 19:41

MikeB4:

Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

If his beliefs are based on religion and are widely held by people of a considerable number of religions, are they unreasonable?

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#2215986 12-Apr-2019 19:46

networkn:
MikeB4:

Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

If his beliefs are based on religion and are widely held by people of a considerable number of religions, are they unreasonable?

Yes.

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#2216003 12-Apr-2019 20:24

Wow, it seems such a shame to drag the thread back on topic, but what an awesome first half in the southern derby.
A game of two quarters so far. First 20 minutes Highlanders, second 20 Crusaders, the time after the hooter evens.

Edit: Third and Fourth quarters clearly to the Crusaders. Highlanders obviously spent all in the first quarter. May as well hand out the trophy now.
Be interesting to hear other’s comments on the penalty count though. The ref warned, then did nothing until the stroke of full time. The same aura that the ABs are accused of maybe?

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#2216231 12-Apr-2019 23:52

Dingbatt: Wow, it seems such a shame to drag the thread back on topic, but what an awesome first half in the southern derby.
A game of two quarters so far. First 20 minutes Highlanders, second 20 Crusaders, the time after the hooter evens.

Edit: Third and Fourth quarters clearly to the Crusaders. Highlanders obviously spent all in the first quarter. May as well hand out the trophy now.
Be interesting to hear other’s comments on the penalty count though. The ref warned, then did nothing until the stroke of full time. The same aura that the ABs are accused of maybe?

As a Crusaders supporter by the end I felt that the ref was under the Crusaders spell. I was surprised, it probably should have happened 5 penalties earlier though I don't believe it would have affected the result.

There was quite a variance in penalties which played to the Crusaders advantage. I definitely want to see them improve their discipline. It's something I felt the AB's were really poor at the last few years, esp 2017.

Some of those tries though! The Crusaders look very hard to beat. I was concerned at Sevu Reece's start with the Crusaders but he is showing some great stuff right now. We don't really have any positions I am too worried about for depth or skill. Andrew Makalio is producing some great forwards work.

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#2216241 13-Apr-2019 06:49

networkn:
tukapa1:
networkn:

I wonder how long it is till he has an NRL contract, I am going to suggest less than a month. I would be amazed if they refused him on morality reasons.

Be amazed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/111983373/code-red-inclusive-nrl-slams-the-door-on-possible-israel-folau-return

Yeah, I saw that this morning, didn't have time to comment on it prior to my surgery.

I am amazed.

The NRL said a year ago that if Folau continued to make statements like this he wouldn't be accepted.

The NRL has made a huge effort in the last 5 years to confront homophobia. They have suspended and fined players for using homophobic slurs.

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#2216242 13-Apr-2019 06:57

Handle9:
networkn:
MikeB4:

Technofreak: I haven't seen any bigotry. Can you elaborate?

Here is the definition of bigotry. Work it out.

"the fact of having and expressing strong, unreasonable beliefs and disliking other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

If his beliefs are based on religion and are widely held by people of a considerable number of religions, are they unreasonable?

Yes.

Who is being unreasonable now?

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Dingbatt

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#2216312 13-Apr-2019 08:47

networkn:
Dingbatt: Wow, it seems such a shame to drag the thread back on topic, but what an awesome first half in the southern derby.
A game of two quarters so far. First 20 minutes Highlanders, second 20 Crusaders, the time after the hooter evens.

Edit: Third and Fourth quarters clearly to the Crusaders. Highlanders obviously spent all in the first quarter. May as well hand out the trophy now.
Be interesting to hear other’s comments on the penalty count though. The ref warned, then did nothing until the stroke of full time. The same aura that the ABs are accused of maybe?

As a Crusaders supporter by the end I felt that the ref was under the Crusaders spell. I was surprised, it probably should have happened 5 penalties earlier though I don't believe it would have affected the result.

There was quite a variance in penalties which played to the Crusaders advantage. I definitely want to see them improve their discipline. It's something I felt the AB's were really poor at the last few years, esp 2017.

Some of those tries though! The Crusaders look very hard to beat. I was concerned at Sevu Reece's start with the Crusaders but he is showing some great stuff right now. We don't really have any positions I am too worried about for depth or skill. Andrew Makalio is producing some great forwards work.

Every time I see Sevu Reece dot down for the Crusaders my heart (as a Chiefs supporter) sinks a little as to what could have been. But for timing, he probably would have ended up in the Chiefs when his overseas contract got cancelled (reasons well publicised). However, with the Crusaders in such dominant form compared to every other franchise, he is able to really shine. But then so are Havili, Ennor, Goodhue, Mo'unga, etc.

Perhaps O'Keefe could be accused of being a bit 'pally' with the players. How many other international refs would have put up with Matt Todd arguing with them? I'm pretty sure he wasn't the Captain, as Whitelock was still on the field. And he awarded a penalty try but no yellow card, but in the reverse awarded a yellow card but no penalty try in similar circumstances (illegal play preventing a try being scored).
That's not to take away the outstanding way the Crusaders played in the second half. Some of the interplay that led to their tries was almost magical.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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