Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2292800 9-Aug-2019 10:10

Not to mention that Spark have said they are no longer intending to broastcast at 60FPS but rather at 25/30FPS which looks HORRIBLE.

kobiak

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#2293868 11-Aug-2019 08:18

is it only me, but All Blacks turned into little cheats this season. how would push, pinch, stupid clear outs and tackles. Discipline is awful :(

but yet they have individual brilliant skills that allow them to score.

Well done Wallabies and Michael Hooper is the MACHINE!

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#2293885 11-Aug-2019 09:40

Well, that was certainly a disappointing result. That was the best Wallabies performance I've seen for a very very long time and they deserved the win for being able to continue to apply pressure for 80 minutes. A lot of teams don't know how to continue once the opposing team have one less man.

I think there was a lot to like about the AB's performance though. It certainly wasn't all bad. Discipline is something I have been talking about for 3+ years and it was the biggest factor last night. Having said that, we showed superman levels of mental strength to get up off the deck in that 40 minute second period. The scoreline wasn't flattering by any stretch but it could well have been much worse. I was frustrated by Ardie pushing Hooper's face into the grass, it's just stupidity and completely unnecessary. It may have been common in the past and there are obviously a group of fans who still love it, but with the rules today, it's likely to cost you points, and with most teams being as good as they are, it's a game-changer.

Nic White, Michael Hooper and Ardie Savea, or Kieran Read could have all been considered for man of the match probably in that order. It was easily KR's best game in a long time and should go a long way to shutting up his critics. I think that loosie combination has some potential. I also think that Richie Mo'unga conducted himself very well, defensively most of all. ALB and Laumape both had their best games in black in my view. The 15/10 combination also had a lot to like last night.

One thing that was apparent was how much better we looked when we put phases together. In the first half Justin Marshall made mention that the Wallabies had something like 12 sets of 7+ phases and AB's had zero.

I don't disagree with the red card. I haven't seen it close up, but it had the components of Red Card territory from the replays I saw, though as someone mentioned, consistency is the key. It will be interesting to see how many Reds are handed out at the RWC, there were a LOT at the under 20's, it was probably one of the biggest factors in a fair number of games and to some degree the outcome of that Tournament. Michael Hooper's scream was a masterclass in manipulation, I thought he had a broken bone.

In the end, I am not sure what the result would have been if it had been 15v15 for 80 minutes.

If we are keeping magic back and hiding it till the RWC, we are doing a great job with that, but I do worry about how it will gel when we do decide to show it.

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#2293951 11-Aug-2019 11:08

I agree that Hooper milked it a bit and that Barrett was a little the victim of circumstance in that Coles pulled Hooper to the left as he tackled him thereby lining him up perfectly with Barrett's upper arm. Barrett was shaping to tackle Hooper head on but for Coles' intervention. But, by the letter of the law, the referee had no choice but to reach for red. I do think intent should play a part in the yellow vs red decision, but that is not the instructions international referees are working under at the moment. By the same token, if you have access to the replay, have a look at the no arms clean out of Savea in a ruck in the 8th minute.

I think the Wallabies were lucky that Lienert-Brown's try was awarded, because in that sequence of play Goodhue was shoulder charged by Beale after he chipped the kick through, and while Hooper was cleared of tackling Read without the ball, Nick White clearly barged A.Smith away from the ball in the in-goal area. Both of these actions could have been deemed worthy of a yellow card if the try hadn't been scored, and a penalty try in the case of Smith/White.

Savea's impetuous push in the back of Hooper's head had its origin in the previous play when Hooper swung his arm at Savea. Unfortunately the local broadcaster chose not to go back quite that far in the portion they played over and over. Ultimately the resulting penalty put the ABs in the position where Barrett's red card happened. I have noticed that Garces seems overly influenced by the crowd. Our local broadcaster needs to take note and use replays to the ABs advantage in the same way their South African and Australian counterparts do.

Garces must have gone to the Wayne Barnes School of Forward Pass Detection.

Otherwise the game proved to me that Lienert-Brown is a 13 not a 12, B.Smith is a fullback not a wing, Ioane has yet to shake off his Blues funk, and that Moanga is a brilliant player but doesn't drive the play around the field enough. In the forwards, Whitelock looked lethargic and below his best, and that Savea is a better impact player off the bench than he is a starting 7. All of the props seemed to be MIA for large portions of the game.

I wonder a little whether the constant shuffling of players and the need to 'impress the judges' to book a spot to the RWC has affected some player's focus.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

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#2293964 11-Aug-2019 11:34

Ben Smith doesn't look his usual self by a long margin so I disagree that for the AB's at least he isn't better on the wing. I don't know what anyone could expect from Mo'unga when the entire forward pack is going backward as they did for a fair percentage of the game, and I suspect he is somewhat sharing that role with Barrett at 10 and there are still some blurred lines/confusion resulting from that. I haven't felt our forwards have been dominant for a long time, probably since they got injured.

I really consider Garces to be one of the worst referees in World Rugby (though to be clear under current guidance and rules he had very little choice to give a Red Card). Forward passes and wonky lineout throws seem to be allowed to go on and on (generally).

Ioane had a pretty decent game (At least much improved from the prior weeks), but still has a fair way to go.

Holding onto the Bledisloe is going to be a matter of the coaches being clearer about the priorities they want from the players, and getting discipline correct.

Perhaps it was just me, but the Wallabies just seemed bigger, wondering if they have bulked up somewhat.

GV27

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#2293969 11-Aug-2019 11:47

A pretty complete Wallabies performance. It was the kind of single-point-deciding test performance we've been missing and the sport has been poorer for it.

What isn't acceptable is another week of unpoliced cheap shots on ABs players at ruck times (particularly involving clear-outs involving the head and neck) while applying the absolute letter of the law in deciding whether the ABs had committed a dangerous foul. I also note the repeated views of the try with multiple All Blacks being tangled with by Australian players off the ball, while the officials only talked about potential offences committed by the ABs).

I also noticed Garces was extremely reluctant to penalise the Wallabies for holding on (Read was penalised when he had legitimately done enough to earn a penalty, or Garces waited long enough and found an All Black coming in from the side - by then the ball had been unreleased more than long enough to justify a penalty).

Twitter was extremely vocal about Savea not joining rucks correctly but had very little to say about the accidental offsides from Australian players who were hit by players breaking from the back of the ruck, or who would clear out AB players at ruck time by joining ahead of the halfback. Can't imagine why.

Garces also poorly policed the Wallabies at ruck time on attack - on a number of occasions, tackled players with knees on the ground were allowed to just keep running or moving forward despite it clearly being time to call a tackle. I think was a large part of why the ABs were found offside so often - the ruck had kept moving, even after the defensive line had formed. There were also many many times AB players were held by Australian players clearing out well past the ruck; again, not a single penalty.

Either Garces is not up to it, or it is a further symptom of NH refs who can't keep up with the evolving pace of the game in the SH. The IRB won't give a damn because it doesn't directly affect a Home Union team and a weaker All Blacks means less SH leverage over the global game.

I'm not confident we would have won with a better ref, but I'm not confident Australia would have either.

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#2293978 11-Aug-2019 11:53

I don't think regardless of the ref, the AB's could have played this particular Wallabies side this weekend and won taking into account the Red Card. It's just too hard to defend a extra mans space when your opponent is getting front foot ball and is able to make the advantage line. I would have been exceptionally happy to have lost by 7-10 points to be honest. 15v15 I think it would have been very close, I was relatively comfortable we still were in the hunt until the red card. When they came out and scored against us right after half time, it was clear what was going to happen.

The AB's have been under the microscope for a long time when it comes to policing stuff, in my opinion it's a side effect of their dominance, but it would be good to know it's at least somewhat fair.

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GV27

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#2293979 11-Aug-2019 12:00

networkn:

The AB's have been under the microscope for a long time when it comes to policing stuff, in my opinion it's a side effect of their dominance, but it would be good to know it's at least somewhat fair.

That's just it; it's easy to label the All Blacks as cheats and dirty players if you ignore the other teams who are doing the same thing. Retallick was taken out by a cheap shot in the last game, but when it was Barrett, they replayed it over and over again until they were sure it was a red card offence.

networkn

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#2293983 11-Aug-2019 12:06

GV27:

networkn:

The AB's have been under the microscope for a long time when it comes to policing stuff, in my opinion it's a side effect of their dominance, but it would be good to know it's at least somewhat fair.

That's just it; it's easy to label the All Blacks as cheats and dirty players if you ignore the other teams who are doing the same thing. Retallick was taken out by a cheap shot in the last game, but when it was Barrett, they replayed it over and over again until they were sure it was a red card offence.

I am comfortable myself it was a fair cop, it could potentially have gone to yellow, but I suspect the Judicary would have wanted a chat with him either way. Agree that they need to police all teams consistently, but is often the way, leniancy has always gone a little in favour of the dominant team and the Wallabies had the wood on us in both halves (for different reasons).

GV27

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#2293986 11-Aug-2019 12:12

That's just it - if you go over the Retallick incident with as fine a toothed comb as they did over the "Should we ignore the shoving off the ball in the lead up to the All Blacks try which was a penalty try if you actually check out the Australians interfering with the ball runners" then it was an easy penalty and warning at the very least. But they didn't even check.

If you wanted to apply the "dangerous play = yellow card" in the same judicious way they did with Barrett, then it was even arguably a yellow.

There have been many occasions where acts against All Blacks have been found in post-match analysis and nothing has been referred to the citing commissioner post-match. If no one sees you at the time, you're in the clear. Meanwhile the game will literally stop for minutes if there's even a hint of ABs foul play.

networkn

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#2293988 11-Aug-2019 12:15

No, there have been plenty of incidents picked up post game that have been deemed to have met the red card threshold where players have been given suspensions. It's not super common, but it happens.

GV27

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#2294029 11-Aug-2019 12:19

networkn:

No, there have been plenty of incidents picked up post game that have been deemed to have met the red card threshold where players have been given suspensions. It's not super common, but it happens.

...and there are many that are not referred to the citing commissioner in the first place? These are not mutually exclusive things.

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#2294137 11-Aug-2019 13:34

I see that Reiko Ioane missed 4 of his 7 tackles. That's very grim. 37 for the game, which some of which is just going to be down to 14 defending 15, but is a worrying trend.

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#2294181 11-Aug-2019 15:30

I have very little faith in the Northern Hemisphere referees at this point. I am just watching SA vs ARG and 11 minutes in one of the SA players jumps into the air as he is about to be tackled, is tackled in the air which should be a penalty to Argentina instead of against them.

On another note, the Black Ferns looked excellent and thumped the Walleroos before the AB's game, it was an enjoyable match.

tdgeek

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#2294289 11-Aug-2019 18:37

networkn:

I have very little faith in the Northern Hemisphere referees at this point. I am just watching SA vs ARG and 11 minutes in one of the SA players jumps into the air as he is about to be tackled, is tackled in the air which should be a penalty to Argentina instead of against them.

On another note, the Black Ferns looked excellent and thumped the Walleroos before the AB's game, it was an enjoyable match.

You know more than me, but if a player is tackled while he is in mid air, isn't that a dangerous tackle and in your example is a penalty against the tackler i.e. against ARG?

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