Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2307237 28-Aug-2019 12:23

Spark Sports Announcement video has flicked between SD and HD about 6 times, and I am on a Gigabit connection.

Makes me pretty anxious.

Sound just tanked hard. Unsure where that blame lands. Is it ok on live tv?

evilonenz

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#2307239 28-Aug-2019 12:25

networkn:

Spark Sports Announcement video has flicked between SD and HD about 6 times, and I am on a Gigabit connection.

Makes me pretty anxious.

Sound just tanked hard. Unsure where that blame lands. Is it ok on live tv?

Agreed. I posted this is the Spark Sport thread, not encouraging:

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Handle9

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#2307396 28-Aug-2019 16:34

GV27:

Franks supposedly set to miss out. I won't say I called it, but I think that's an acknowledgement we expect to be more harshly policed and discipline isn't something we can compromise on.

I don't think it has much to do with discipline. Unfortunately he hasn't been the same player since his injuries. They have been pretty open about what they are looking for from their front rowers and Franks hasn't been able to deliver the impact they are looking for. It's a sad way for a great of the game to finish his All Black career.

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#2307616 29-Aug-2019 09:23

so people are shocked at laumape not selected. but who would you have picked to play 12-13

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#2307630 29-Aug-2019 09:51

Batman:
so people are shocked at laumape not selected. but who would you have picked to play 12-13

I would say he's first reserve if Crotty or SBW get re-injured, or Leinert-Brown or Goodhue go down.
Same goes for Josh Ioane for Barrett/Mounga.
Franks was the least surprising omission to me.

Edit:The selectors could have named another whole 31 man squad that would probably have finished in the top eight in the tournament.

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#2307633 29-Aug-2019 09:54

Dingbatt:
Batman:

so people are shocked at laumape not selected. but who would you have picked to play 12-13

I would say he's first reserve if Crotty or SBW get re-injured, or Leinert-Brown or Goodhue go down.
Same goes for Josh Ioane for Barrett/Mounga.

yes we have some world class reserves on white baiting duties. no worries from the injuries side of things.

but i still don't know if we have a settled 12 & 13, or perhaps see it as a 12-13 combination, where 2 people are better off playing together, unlike the good old nonu-smith days and we don't know who's going to play 10 (the selectors admitted they didn't know who'd play 10!)

networkn

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#2307639 29-Aug-2019 10:05

I really feel that Laumape isn't close to our best 12 at test level. He's reasonably easily contained unless like a lot of players he gets some space. In SR he gets space, though this year, like Damien MacKenzie opposition teams have worked out how to largely neutralize him. He is powerful, and fast in open spaces, but that just isn't enough. His communication and distribution could use work, and he really is a 1 position player. I couldn't see him in 13 or wider unless there was literally no other choice. In my view he needs to add something different to his game. I expect he's probably next cab off the rank.

I am gutted for Franks, he's been such a massive part of the AB's success for so long, but I can understand the decision. I have felt reluctantly, that he hadn't been "himself" for probably at least 12 months. Franks is a through and through professional, I am not sure what cab off the rank he is, but I expect him to give everything to Canterbury and be ready for a call up. It's a horrible way to end an outstanding career.

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Dingbatt

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#2307729 29-Aug-2019 11:42

I disagree that it is sad way for Franks to go out. He already has two World Cups, multiple Super Rugby and Championship trophies and has represented his country more than 100 times. He has nothing more to prove, he’s already been there, done that (and got multiple T-shirts).

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

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#2307772 29-Aug-2019 12:33

Dingbatt:

I disagree that it is sad way for Franks to go out. He already has two World Cups, multiple Super Rugby and Championship trophies and has represented his country more than 100 times. He has nothing more to prove, he’s already been there, done that (and got multiple T-shirts).

I'm not saying he hasn't achieved plenty, but fantastic players, deserve to go out on a high, rather than not being good enough for the RWC Squad for the AB's in my view. It would have been nice to go out on a high for him.

@handle9 what do you think, is he the next cab off the rank or would someone get the nod ahead of him?

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#2307802 29-Aug-2019 13:37

@Dingbatt is right to focus on Franks' achievements. Franks has had extraordinary opportunities that he's made the most of including two successful RWC campaigns and both of those with his older brother in the same squad. That's extraordinary for his family.

Leaving on a high has been under his control and he clearly had other priorities. He chose not to leave on a high after either RWC campaign. Good on him for staying in NZ. But there shouldn't be a selection criteria based on what he "deserves".

Anyway, "Fantastic players" don't deserve "to go out on a high" ... do they? If they did then we could continue to manufacture even greater highs: I would really like to see him get to a fourth RWC or we could bring back Wyatt Crocket. It's probably better to say that humble servants deserve to let the team advance without them. Justin Marshall couldn't accept that. Thankfully these other players do.

Also, Franks has hardly been a "fantastic player" - he's simply not that extraordinary as a player. But he has been a great prop and a great team player.

But he's no longer the best we have. The reality seems to be that he's just not fast enough or wide-ranging to satisfy the latest gameplan.

networkn

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#2307865 29-Aug-2019 14:23

I think you would find a LONG list of people who disagree with you about Franks being a fantastic prop or player. He and Moody have long been considered the best of the best and our dominance at set piece and forwards dominance for so long speaks to that as well. I also disagree that it's apparent he has had other priorities. It may be that his injuries have prevented him being as mobile as they would like, but him being non selected as suitable for this RWC doesn't speak to a lack of will automatically.

Ultimately, he has never has never been the most mobile guy anyway, that certainly wasn't his strength and the AB's have gone with a plan that excludes him as a result. I don't doubt he was given the chance to improve and prove he could be what they needed, but there are legitimate reasons beyond a lack of will that could have prevented it.

I still believe it would have been nice to have him finish on a higher note than a record thrashing at the hands of Australia.

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#2307880 29-Aug-2019 14:57

networkn:

I think you would find a LONG list of people who disagree with you about Franks being a fantastic prop or player.

I agree that you would find such people,but most of our differences would over the meaning of "fantastic". I don't think that Franks is "fantastic" in the way that Dan Carter is "fantastic". The primary meaning and root has always been about the extraordinary and unreal. Carter appears to have that and Franks does not.

networkn

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#2307885 29-Aug-2019 15:11

Hammerer:

networkn:

I think you would find a LONG list of people who disagree with you about Franks being a fantastic prop or player.

I agree that you would find such people,but most of our differences would over the meaning of "fantastic". I don't think that Franks is "fantastic" in the way that Dan Carter is "fantastic". The primary meaning and root has always been about the extraordinary and unreal. Carter appears to have that and Franks does not.

Comparing 1 and 3 to 10 isn't exactly comparing apples to apples. Comparing 1 and 3 to other very well regarded 1's and 3's would be a sensible comparison. DC himself would (and does) attribute a fair bit of what he does well (as should any back) to the work done up front. Franks was a huge part of that. Franks played 108 tests as the almost exclusively first choice tight head prop in the most successful Rugby team in the world during their most dominant period in the modern era of professional Rugby (correct me if I am wrong).

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#2307918 29-Aug-2019 16:23

I didn't mention anything about comparing their positions. I was comparing them on the basis of the superlative "fantastic".

Even if I did compare by position, and even though I consider that Franks may well be top-ten among all props, I don't see Franks standing out from other props (e.g. Woodcock, Loe) by being called "fantastic, unreal or extraordinary" as much as Carter stands out from other fly-halves in that way.

Handle9

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#2308058 29-Aug-2019 19:43

networkn:

Dingbatt:

I disagree that it is sad way for Franks to go out. He already has two World Cups, multiple Super Rugby and Championship trophies and has represented his country more than 100 times. He has nothing more to prove, he’s already been there, done that (and got multiple T-shirts).

I'm not saying he hasn't achieved plenty, but fantastic players, deserve to go out on a high, rather than not being good enough for the RWC Squad for the AB's in my view. It would have been nice to go out on a high for him.

@handle9 what do you think, is he the next cab off the rank or would someone get the nod ahead of him?

Fox said he was likely the next cab off the rank but I guess it depends on whether they need a loosehead or tighthead.

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