Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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969 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2325449 26-Sep-2019 17:24

I’ve watched all games live, and don’t plan on stopping. Uruguay v Fiji, France v Argentina and the all blacks v springboks are the standouts so far for me.

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tukapa1

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#2325453 26-Sep-2019 17:39

networkn: Well, what sort of team would the hosts be fielding if they used Nationals only? It's a bit of a stupid article in my opinion, there are actually very few teams that have a significant number of imports playing at the RWC. There might be 1-2 in a squad of 31 for some teams.

If Japan hadn't of imported players, they wouldn't have qualified.

Are you saying we should have had the cup hosted in a country where the host can't play, or are you saying it shouldn't be in Japan?

There are two teams who are heavily reliant on imports, both countries they are trying to develop the game in their part of the world. Neither are contenders to win

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/114302412/rugby-world-cup-scotland-and-australia-top-the-charts-for-most-overseas-born-players

tdgeek

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#2325490 26-Sep-2019 18:37

networkn:

tdgeek:

networkn:

Well, what sort of team would the hosts be fielding if they used Nationals only? It's a bit of a stupid article in my opinion, there are actually very few teams that have a significant number of imports playing at the RWC. There might be 1-2 in a squad of 31 for some teams.

If Japan didn't have 3 year residency, the hosts wouldn't have a team. If they want Rugby to become global, then you need to field teams and put in performances that make the younger local generation want to play rugby, so that in the longer term you have teams made up of majority nationals.

Its supposed to be a World Cup, country vs country. Japan would have a team just Japanese. If that reduces them, then that's accurate. Islanders do well in other teams as well. Essentially you can make up your team using anyone, just don't call it a World Cup.

If Japan hadn't of imported players, they wouldn't have qualified.

Are you saying we should have had the cup hosted in a country where the host can't play, or are you saying it shouldn't be in Japan?

There are two teams who are heavily reliant on imports, both countries they are trying to develop the game in their part of the world. Neither are contenders to win, so I don't see how it makes one bit of difference.

I haven't checked Irelands roster (since it was one team mentioned) but they only mention one player Bundee Akee.

What about coaches? I notice no mention of the nationality of them in their article. If you remove coaches and players from the equation, who are outside of their country of origin, there isn't going to be a rugby world cup, there will be NZ being given the trophy each four years. Only SA and Australia would qualify to attend, we already beat SA, I'd expect us to beat Australia.

So you agree its not really a world cup, cool. Its ok to import players, cool. If you are into Super Rugby, NRL, you will see that the location is meaningless. After all its rugby and league money making and successful entertainment. When the league guys plays an international, AUS vs NZ what happens? All the Kiwis come here all the cobbers go back there. Its AUS vs NZ. But if its ok to stack teams thats hardly country vs country is it?

If a Kiwi coach helps out a foreign nation thats a good thing, the coach doesn't play he educates. The "sport" is between the citizens of one country vs the citizens of another thats why its called the "World" Cup. There was a sport, maybe its league where a player can plat for another nation if they had a birthright, Im ok with that. There is a link, that link is greater than I got paid 900k per year for 3 years Im now japanese or Namibian.Now, if thats ok, then Im ok with that, dint call it a World Cup as it isnt.

tdgeek

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#2325495 26-Sep-2019 18:46

tukapa1:
networkn: Well, what sort of team would the hosts be fielding if they used Nationals only? It's a bit of a stupid article in my opinion, there are actually very few teams that have a significant number of imports playing at the RWC. There might be 1-2 in a squad of 31 for some teams.

If Japan hadn't of imported players, they wouldn't have qualified.

Are you saying we should have had the cup hosted in a country where the host can't play, or are you saying it shouldn't be in Japan?

There are two teams who are heavily reliant on imports, both countries they are trying to develop the game in their part of the world. Neither are contenders to win

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/114302412/rugby-world-cup-scotland-and-australia-top-the-charts-for-most-overseas-born-players

Im all for developing lower tier teams but lets not falsify a World Cup. Or call it the Rugby Cup. Im surprised that the purists here dont see that.Its nit an entertainment venture like Super Rugby, NRL NBL and so on where anytime can play anywhere its a WORLD CUP. Pity Packer isnt active he could buy a team for say AUS, stacked, and win every RWC, easy. Thats not a genuine WORLD CUP. Its a CUP defined by the chequebook. Im pleased to see NZ can achieve what it achieves and is at the bottom of the stacker stats.

Batman

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#2325498 26-Sep-2019 18:48

tdgeek:

Hard to argue against this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116104348/rugby-bosses-blasted-for-turning-rugby-world-cup-into-a-circus-as-imports-flood-teams

Has anyone watched the Olympics? I disagree with the opinion. If you want to follow national rules for rugby it has to be for every sport.

In soccer the rules are more strict however. Maybe he's comparing with soccer. But soccer is so widely played every country has enough players. Not so for minor sports.

tdgeek

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#2325515 26-Sep-2019 19:01

Batman:

tdgeek:

Hard to argue against this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116104348/rugby-bosses-blasted-for-turning-rugby-world-cup-into-a-circus-as-imports-flood-teams

Has anyone watched the Olympics? I disagree with the opinion. If you want to follow national rules for rugby it has to be for every sport.

In soccer the rules are more strict however. Maybe he's comparing with soccer. But soccer is so widely played every country has enough players. Not so for minor sports.

I agree, look at pro tennis, and womens golf. The Russians are all Canadians, the South Korens are all Americans. Well not all. All I ask, is a world cup thats a world cup. Birthright is ok. But lets draw a line. But your right, Olympics is as bad. Id like to think some spirts can stack whoever they like in the business they are in, but lets make a World Cup a World Cup. Its not a are you born in the world? Yes. Ok, choose which of the 196 you want to be in.

Handle9

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#2325523 26-Sep-2019 19:22

tdgeek:

Hard to argue against this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116104348/rugby-bosses-blasted-for-turning-rugby-world-cup-into-a-circus-as-imports-flood-teams

It's an angry old man who is angry that things are different than "back in his day". Of course he is assuming that the way it was back in his day was correct.

The majority of the players who are playing for countries other than their birth will live there after they retire. Do you really think that CJ Stander will retire to South Africa or Shannon Frizzel will live in Nukulofa when he stops playing? I really don't think David Pocock is off to live in Harrare.

The wold is globalised and freedom of movement also means people will move where they live and represent in sport. I don't live in New Zealand and may not return. If at some point I identify more with another country than that of my birth what is the arbitrary point at which that changes?

There are, and alway will be, examples that take the p1ss but generally things work reasonably well.

tdgeek

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#2325545 26-Sep-2019 20:08

Handle9:

tdgeek:

Hard to argue against this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116104348/rugby-bosses-blasted-for-turning-rugby-world-cup-into-a-circus-as-imports-flood-teams

It's an angry old man who is angry that things are different than "back in his day". Of course he is assuming that the way it was back in his day was correct.

The majority of the players who are playing for countries other than their birth will live there after they retire. Do you really think that CJ Stander will retire to South Africa or Shannon Frizzel will live in Nukulofa when he stops playing? I really don't think David Pocock is off to live in Harrare.

The wold is globalised and freedom of movement also means people will move where they live and represent in sport. I don't live in New Zealand and may not return. If at some point I identify more with another country than that of my birth what is the arbitrary point at which that changes?

There are, and alway will be, examples that take the p1ss but generally things work reasonably well.

I doubt the majority of players who went offshore to make good coin will stay there. Kiwis in the UK yes, more so, Kiwis in Namibia, not so much. To me, NZ vs Namibia is New Zealanders vs Namibians. Its a World Cup. In most aspects where sport intersects with economics its only about the money and entertainment. Its just a business. But if NZ vs Namibia means not NZ and Namibia but where you had a kip last week, well thats not our country vs your country lets celebrate that. Lets just use a correct competition name, such as Rugby Cup, or KFC Rugby Cup, but its not really a world cup. I can accept either way, but lets not cheapen it by calling it a World Cup if its not.

tdgeek

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#2325549 26-Sep-2019 20:13

Kiwi-born captain Dean Budd strolls through some woeful Canadian defence and touches down under the sticks.

Great try Italy! Italy is importing, I mean growing well! .

Handle9

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#2325551 26-Sep-2019 20:17

tdgeek:

Handle9:

tdgeek:

Hard to argue against this

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116104348/rugby-bosses-blasted-for-turning-rugby-world-cup-into-a-circus-as-imports-flood-teams

It's an angry old man who is angry that things are different than "back in his day". Of course he is assuming that the way it was back in his day was correct.

The majority of the players who are playing for countries other than their birth will live there after they retire. Do you really think that CJ Stander will retire to South Africa or Shannon Frizzel will live in Nukulofa when he stops playing? I really don't think David Pocock is off to live in Harrare.

The wold is globalised and freedom of movement also means people will move where they live and represent in sport. I don't live in New Zealand and may not return. If at some point I identify more with another country than that of my birth what is the arbitrary point at which that changes?

There are, and alway will be, examples that take the p1ss but generally things work reasonably well.

I doubt the majority of players who went offshore to make good coin will stay there. Kiwis in the UK yes, more so, Kiwis in Namibia, not so much. To me, NZ vs Namibia is New Zealanders vs Namibians. Its a World Cup. In most aspects where sport intersects with economics its only about the money and entertainment. Its just a business. But if NZ vs Namibia means not NZ and Namibia but where you had a kip last week, well thats not our country vs your country lets celebrate that. Lets just use a correct competition name, such as Rugby Cup, or KFC Rugby Cup, but its not really a world cup. I can accept either way, but lets not cheapen it by calling it a World Cup if its not.

Which 15 New Zealanders are playing for Namibia? Your reasoning and examples are pretty hard to follow.

networkn

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#2325556 26-Sep-2019 20:23

So on your logic it's ok if our national team fields Sevu Reece but not at the world cup? I mean he is Fijian Born after all. Pretty sure Grant Elliot played for the black caps in the cricket world cup so no more cwc it's called the kfc cup now. Olympics are gone. U20s world cup gone. The article is nonsense.

tdgeek

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#2325557 26-Sep-2019 20:27

networkn: So on your logic it's ok if our national team fields Sevu Reece but not at the world cup? I mean he is Fijian Born after all. Pretty sure Grant Elliot played for the black caps in the cricket world cup so no more cwc it's called the kfc cup now. Olympics are gone. U20s world cup gone. The article is nonsense.

The article is nonsense if you wish to see a world cup between nations, correct. Its nit a world cup its just a series, golf, rugby, cricket. NZ is New Zealanders or it isnt. and it isnt to mention one team.

tdgeek

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#2325558 26-Sep-2019 20:33

Handle9:

Which 15 New Zealanders are playing for Namibia? Your reasoning and examples are pretty hard to follow.

Where did I say that?? Your replies are hard to follow if you make things up. 15 Kiwis playing for Namibia is plain bizarre. If you feel its fine to call any country's team a country team where some players are imported, that's fine. I happen to disagree. If thats ok. my definition of NZ, or Japan, or Namibia must differ from yours. I thought that means Kiwis, or Namibians, or Japanese, my mistake. It means people who live in this world, so we shouldn't be using country names, it it does not represent the country. Im actually surprised that what I assumed were rugby purists, dont care about representation of nations.

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#2325559 26-Sep-2019 20:34

tdgeek:

networkn: So on your logic it's ok if our national team fields Sevu Reece but not at the world cup? I mean he is Fijian Born after all. Pretty sure Grant Elliot played for the black caps in the cricket world cup so no more cwc it's called the kfc cup now. Olympics are gone. U20s world cup gone. The article is nonsense.

The article is nonsense if you wish to see a world cup between nations, correct. Its nit a world cup its just a series, golf, rugby, cricket. NZ is New Zealanders or it isnt. and it isnt to mention one team.

Then half the NZ team should be stood down and the entire NZ Maori promoted.

tdgeek

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#2325560 26-Sep-2019 20:34

networkn: So on your logic it's ok if our national team fields Sevu Reece but not at the world cup? I mean he is Fijian Born after all. Pretty sure Grant Elliot played for the black caps in the cricket world cup so no more cwc

Correct. Or just remove the nation name and no issue.

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