Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2338397 16-Oct-2019 19:41

MileHighKiwi: Does anyone other than me think Australia has a chance against England? That test in Perth makes me think they could cause an upset.

ABs will smoke the Irish, it wont be as bad as the 2015 1/4 against France but I'm thinking a pretty comprehensive performance to send them home with a whimper.

Wales should beat France and Japan will put up a good fight.

Aussie v NZ semi?

Perth was no fluke.They had a plan that worked. If its a knockout what happened in Eden Park isnt relevant.Its not how good a team is, its what they strategise on the night. If anyone confuses the opponent and is up by 16 at half time, they can then just focus on hanging on. Best team ran second in the night. World Cup finals should always be best of 3

Handle9

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#2338399 16-Oct-2019 19:47

Batman:
networkn:

Todd is always the last to get called. It sucks for him, he is so under rated.

I understand why, but it still sucks.

I went into depression when Mitchell ended Cullen's career. I never understood why.

He wasn't from Canterbury. Deans had a bit too much say in that team, as well as a massive conflict of interest being the Crusaders coach.

His pace was also dropping away by then but that was the era of the Canter-blacks

The way he was treated was disgraceful - not necessarily the selection but the way Mitchell shafted him publicly was awful

Batman

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#2338404 16-Oct-2019 20:00

MileHighKiwi: Does anyone other than me think Australia has a chance against England? That test in Perth makes me think they could cause an upset.

ABs will smoke the Irish, it wont be as bad as the 2015 1/4 against France but I'm thinking a pretty comprehensive performance to send them home with a whimper.

Wales should beat France and Japan will put up a good fight.

Aussie v NZ semi?

it's knockout footy, evrybnody starts off with a chance. then things happen ....

Hammerer

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#2338408 16-Oct-2019 20:18

I have a lot of sympathy for Matt Todd because he is so good. But he's competing for places against some standout players.

Handle9:

Batman:

I went into depression when Mitchell ended Cullen's career. I never understood why.

He wasn't from Canterbury. Deans had a bit too much say in that team, as well as a massive conflict of interest being the Crusaders coach.

His pace was also dropping away by then but that was the era of the Canter-blacks

The way he was treated was disgraceful - not necessarily the selection but the way Mitchell shafted him publicly was awful

That's the most convincing explanation I've seen. There's no end of good quotes about that era - I've included some below.

Whatever the reason, the more important point is that the NZRU and the All Black coaches are capable of destroying our RWC hopes. Highly-accomplished senior players still get dropped, e.g. Franks this year, but we don't see groups of such players being dropped at the same time because the coaches know they can weaken the entire team by being too precipitate.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2003/oct/21/rugbyworldcup2003.rugbyunion5

The New Zealand coaching staff last night defended the decision to omit Christian Cullen from their World Cup squad, saying they were determined to get rid of the star syndrome that developed after the onset of professionalism.

https://www.noted.co.nz/archive/archive-listener-nz-2005/insecure-all-black

Mitchell made a goose of himself before the 2003 World Cup, dropping a core of experienced players like Oliver, Andrew Mehrtens, Christian Cullen and Randell, then complaining after the semi-final defeat by Australia that he didn't have enough experience on the park.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/opinion/113749552/christian-cullens-manawat-interlude-a-steppingstone-to-his-greatness

In the doco, Cullen could have vilified coaches Robbie Deans and John Mitchell for wrecking his All Blacks career, once dropping him for Ben Blair for goodness sake, but, typically, didn't put the boot in.

Ben Blair sure was undercooked and always rather fragile.

Handle9

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#2338412 16-Oct-2019 20:27

The Mitchell / Deans era was notable not for what they did, but how the did it.

John Hart and Wayne Smith had really professionalised rugby and mostly were good communicators.

I think Mitchell is brilliant technically but just can't lead or communicate as a head coach. He's in the perfect job for him as as a defence coach where he is focussed on technical topics.

The Franks / Cullen experience is really a good example. Both are truly amoung the great all blacks but because Franks was clearly treated very fairly people can accept his being dropped.

Cullen was more like Gary Whetton. It may have been time to move on but they got no respect from the coaches for what they accomplished. It was a different time in management and rugby.

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#2338521 16-Oct-2019 22:28

tdgeek:

MileHighKiwi: Does anyone other than me think Australia has a chance against England? That test in Perth makes me think they could cause an upset.

ABs will smoke the Irish, it wont be as bad as the 2015 1/4 against France but I'm thinking a pretty comprehensive performance to send them home with a whimper.

Wales should beat France and Japan will put up a good fight.

Aussie v NZ semi?

Perth was no fluke.They had a plan that worked. If its a knockout what happened in Eden Park isnt relevant.Its not how good a team is, its what they strategise on the night. If anyone confuses the opponent and is up by 16 at half time, they can then just focus on hanging on. Best team ran second in the night. World Cup finals should always be best of 3

Aussies winning in Perth was no fluke, but the margin was. I think the ABs turned up expecting to win and didn’t expect the game from Aus. However it has worked out great for us, as we’ve had to look at our game plan/player selection and change it.

if we had lost by 1 point then Franks would still be there, Reece or Bridge may not have got a chance (Smith and Ioane were the incumbent wings) and a couple of the experiments may have been shelved. The record loss made the ABs have a good look at themselves and the next game speaks for itself.

Thats why Aussie are in with a shot against England but will either win by 1 point or get dicked by 25. They’re too inconsistent to really say for sure which way it will go. I’ll be cheering for them😀

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#2339858 17-Oct-2019 15:49

I am happy to have the team we have.

I have a couple of concerns:

1) Fitness of Brodie and Jack. The plus side of that being we can bring on Barrett and SBW anytime, knowing they can play for 80 if required.

2) Reece under the high ball. I expect they will target him. I have slight concerns if he stumbles catching the first couple with his youth and inexperience that could be tough. If he catches a few and copes, I think he will be ok.

3) Unexpected Set Play from Ireland we aren't prepared for and don't defensively cope with.

In my view if we can start well, we should be OK.

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Handle9

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#2339890 17-Oct-2019 17:38

There are a couple of interesting wrinkles. Starting Taylor may signal they want to very wide early. He's a bit more mobile than Coles. Coles should be good in a closing role for 30-40 minutes.

Going for Jordie Barrett is a form selection but still a pretty big call, as is Goodhue over Crotty. I'm not convinced about the midfield but hoping to be proved wrong.

I think we might see Read playing behind the line in box kick situations. If we kill the first few Ireland run out of options pretty quickly.

networkn

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#2339892 17-Oct-2019 17:42

I was surprised at Taylor over Coles to start. Same with Goodhue over Crotty. Goodhue is a monster defensively (as an individual), but in my opinion Crotty has superior defensive organization skills.

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#2339894 17-Oct-2019 17:43

IMO Taylor and Coles both will play a half so it's not as big a deal who starts.

GV27

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#2339979 18-Oct-2019 07:46

Coles is a penalty machine and worth at least ten minutes in the bin to the Irish as soon as he comes on. If Hansen is smart, that will be after the 70th minute.

throbb

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#2339984 18-Oct-2019 08:17

GV27:
Coles is a penalty machine and worth at least ten minutes in the bin to the Irish as soon as he comes on. If Hansen is smart, that will be after the 70th minute.

Coles used the be able to control himself when playing for the ABs, for what ever reason he now seems to be always out for a fight.

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#2339997 18-Oct-2019 08:49

It’s 12 years since the ABs were anything but winners in a Rugby World Cup. I do hope that in those intervening years supporters have matured enough so if the ABs are bested in the the quarters, semis or final, they can accept that that is sport. It will be great if all the games in the knockout rounds are decided by a 15 vs 15 contest without undue influence by the officials, but I doubt that will be the case.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

rp1790

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#2340010 18-Oct-2019 09:10

Well, this (Ireland vs AB's) is going to be an absolutely monumental game and whoever wins deserves to win the RWC and will have my support, black or green.

Steve Hansen has chosen a very young backline which makes me a little anxious. Anyone who thinks the Irish will be trounced because of what the Japanese did is mistaken this game can go either way and I personally think it's 50/50.

Go the AB's!!

networkn

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#2340012 18-Oct-2019 09:21

Dingbatt:

It’s 12 years since the ABs were anything but winners in a Rugby World Cup. I do hope that in those intervening years supporters have matured enough so if the ABs are bested in the the quarters, semis or final, they can accept that that is sport. It will be great if all the games in the knockout rounds are decided by a 15 vs 15 contest without undue influence by the officials, but I doubt that will be the case.

I would like to think I can live with any result, so long as it's a fair result. Losing in a tight contest to a blatantly missed forward pass won't make me happy. I'd really like to see Hansen bow out as a winner.

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