Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2548207 23-Aug-2020 14:26

From that Article :

His current contract runs out at the end of next year

Infers he is staying till end of 2021 Crusaders Season. Obviously, things can change.

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Handle9

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#2548209 23-Aug-2020 14:27

Sure. It doesn't mean he has signed a new deal, his current deal has a year to go.

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#2549145 25-Aug-2020 06:31

It looks very unlikely that the North South game will have crowds and may not be played at all. NZR have come out and said that they don't want it to clash with Mitre 10 cup which seems a step in the right direction if a little surprising.

I'd guess they are getting pretty resigned to not playing any test matches so trying to get as much interest as possible in the Mitre 10 cup. They'll probably still go through the facade of announcing an All Black squad but its probably ultimately meaningless.

Their August 31 deadline for "expressions of interest" looks like it will come and go. Their normal media proxies like Phil Gifford are ramping up the rhetoric but Australia look pretty staunch in their position.

We'll see how good NZR really are at that point and whether they can find a way to save any of their international relationships. Given that Fiji and Japan have chosen to go north rather than play in NZ I'm not hopeful but 2020 has been full of surprises so far.

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#2552918 31-Aug-2020 10:58

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/122611447/lions-legend-urges-warren-gatland-not-to-appoint-scott-robertson-to-coaching-team

I actually agree with this. Everyone knows I am a fan of Robertson, but I feel there are coaches who would probably "fit" better with the Lions, than Robertson. He may be fantastic, it may be the making of both parties, but I can understand the concern.

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#2556090 3-Sep-2020 05:55

This weekend should be fun. It should be a decent game. The South looks slightly stronger, mostly with the Crusaders combinations having an advantage in this sort of game.

Watching the breakdown tonight (well having it in the background while I was playing games) the language from the NZR proxies has changed a fair bit (I find the Breakdown a bit too NZR positive to be considered independent) . They are now making noises that "maybe"Australia should have 5 teams. I did laugh a fair bit when they accused the Northern Hemisphere of only looking after themselves but the language towards Australia has softened a lot.

I think it's pretty clear that, if there is international super rugby, the proposed NZR format won't fly. It would be good to see them actually talking to Australia about what they need and find some form of compromise that gets benefits both unions. What went on earlier this year was atrocious and totally unnecessary.

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#2556282 3-Sep-2020 12:24

Handle9:

This weekend should be fun. It should be a decent game. The South looks slightly stronger, mostly with the Crusaders combinations having an advantage in this sort of game.

Watching the breakdown tonight (well having it in the background while I was playing games) the language from the NZR proxies has changed a fair bit (I find the Breakdown a bit too NZR positive to be considered independent) . They are now making noises that "maybe"Australia should have 5 teams. I did laugh a fair bit when they accused the Northern Hemisphere of only looking after themselves but the language towards Australia has softened a lot.

I think it's pretty clear that, if there is international super rugby, the proposed NZR format won't fly. It would be good to see them actually talking to Australia about what they need and find some form of compromise that gets benefits both unions. What went on earlier this year was atrocious and totally unnecessary.

5 Australian teams would mean that an NZ team will probably win 9 out of 10 years. Unless NSW got to keep all their best players for themselves.

It would also give a chance for the players 16 to 30 in NZ teams to get full games and keep the elite fresh.

If the NZ teams were smart they could do loans like what happens in the EPL for fringe players.

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#2556313 3-Sep-2020 13:33

Handle9:

I think it's pretty clear that, if there is international super rugby, the proposed NZR format won't fly. It would be good to see them actually talking to Australia about what they need and find some form of compromise that gets benefits both unions. What went on earlier this year was atrocious and totally unnecessary.

Australia is only interested in what suits them, NZR are doing the same. 5 Aussie teams is silly. They have at most 3 competitive teams (The 'tahs have been terrible all season long and they are supposed to be top 2), so it means 2 teams are getting smashed week in and week out. *possibly* the only benefit is that they *might* build some depth, but they had 5 teams for a long time and it wasn't doing much for their playing stocks of 1st tier players. I'm inclined to think Cheika was a fairly decent sized component of Australia's international rankings slide, but certainly isn't all his fault.

If NZR acquiesces to Australia's demand for 5 teams, it won't be about what's better for the competition or the fans, it will be because without it there wouldn't be much of one. I am not sure that either solution is right.

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#2556371 3-Sep-2020 14:24

I am a little surprised to see Sotutu and Ioane starting for the North.

Not that they haven't been playing well, but quite a decent promotion :)

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#2556373 3-Sep-2020 14:32

networkn:

5 Aussie teams is silly. They have at most 3 competitive teams (The 'tahs have been terrible all season long and they are supposed to be top 2), so it means 2 teams are getting smashed week in and week out. *possibly* the only benefit is that they *might* build some depth, but they had 5 teams for a long time and it wasn't doing much for their playing stocks of 1st tier players. I'm inclined to think Cheika was a fairly decent sized component of Australia's international rankings slide, but certainly isn't all his fault.

If NZR acquiesces to Australia's demand for 5 teams, it won't be about what's better for the competition or the fans, it will be because without it there wouldn't be much of one. I am not sure that either solution is right.

I've said it before that I don't think that it is silly. It is just problems to be overcome.

I'm a fan of Super Rugby and I think a competition without Australia is a far worse outcome. Much as I loved the NZ derbies, I am pining for a good trans-Tasman match. I also much prefer the NZ inter-provincial competitions than NZ-only Super Rugby which I don't want to watch for a second year.

I'm clearly more optimistic about the future than you are despite some massive obstacles we'd have to overcome:
* Australia has never been able to support four fully competitive teams in past Super Rugby competitions.
* High-level Australian rugby has been in decline despite having a sort of renaissance at local club level.
* The ARU has never managed to get a successful inter-state competition to mirror NZ's inter-provincial competition.
* The NZRU and ARU have a high level of "selfish" and "one-eyed" people to impede real solutions.

I have little doubt that we should be aiming to allow permanent seats for five Australian teams even if they only provide three or four teams at any point:
* Australia is simply too big geographically to be amenable to a less than four teams.
* Five teams is more workable for them e.g. it solves the WA (remember the Force) issue
* It reduces the NZ-derby load for NZ players.
* It reduces the political tension when Australia has less teams than NZ.
* We (maybe it is just me) want Australian rugby to get stronger to make them more competitive.
* More NZ players in Australian teams for the short-term could help both countries in the long-term as more camaraderie should smooth future tensions.

Handle9

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#2556554 3-Sep-2020 16:14

networkn:

I am a little surprised to see Sotutu and Ioane starting for the North.

Not that they haven't been playing well, but quite a decent promotion :)

Who would you have started instead?

Handle9

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#2556560 3-Sep-2020 16:25

networkn:

Handle9:

I think it's pretty clear that, if there is international super rugby, the proposed NZR format won't fly. It would be good to see them actually talking to Australia about what they need and find some form of compromise that gets benefits both unions. What went on earlier this year was atrocious and totally unnecessary.

Australia is only interested in what suits them, NZR are doing the same. 5 Aussie teams is silly. They have at most 3 competitive teams (The 'tahs have been terrible all season long and they are supposed to be top 2), so it means 2 teams are getting smashed week in and week out. *possibly* the only benefit is that they *might* build some depth, but they had 5 teams for a long time and it wasn't doing much for their playing stocks of 1st tier players. I'm inclined to think Cheika was a fairly decent sized component of Australia's international rankings slide, but certainly isn't all his fault.

If NZR acquiesces to Australia's demand for 5 teams, it won't be about what's better for the competition or the fans, it will be because without it there wouldn't be much of one. I am not sure that either solution is right.

If NZR had gone to Australia behind closed doors and behaved like a partner a better competition may have been able to be worked out. Putting Australia in a corner meant some very public pronouncements had to be made by the ARU to keep their stakeholders happy. It was just daft. If negotiations had been going on then blew up and went public I'd probably have a had a different opinion of NZRs behaviour.

I agree that NZR and the ARU are looking out for themselves, that doesn't bother me. The bleating from them about the "good of the game" does. NZR views whatever is good for them is good for the game, which isn't really the case.

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#2556581 3-Sep-2020 17:01

Handle9:

I think the All Blacks 35 will be below:

...

Developmental / Backups / there isn't anyone else

Aumua

Parkinson

Shelby-Rickit

Boshier

Weber

Umaga-Jensen

Jordan

Clarke

It looks like I've gotten my first player wrong with Boshier not in the playing group for the North.

Handle9

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#2556690 4-Sep-2020 07:07

Aaron Mauger has been let go by the Highlanders. Not too many of the guys who come out of the Crusaders system seem to be that successful outside of Canterbury.

Hammett seems to be the modern Laurie Mains, leaving a train smash where ever he goes and Mauger hasn't been renewed by Leicester or the Highlanders. Todd Blackadder was also let go by Bath.

I really do hope that Leon Macdonald doesn't end up the same. Next year will be a big year for him. He's got a pretty good Blues side that seems to have recruited well again.

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#2556742 4-Sep-2020 09:45

Handle9: Aaron Mauger has been let go by the Highlanders. Not too many of the guys who come out of the Crusaders system seem to be that successful outside of Canterbury.

Hammett seems to be the modern Laurie Mains, leaving a train smash where ever he goes and Mauger hasn't been renewed by Leicester or the Highlanders. Todd Blackadder was also let go by Bath.

I really do hope that Leon Macdonald doesn't end up the same. Next year will be a big year for him. He's got a pretty good Blues side that seems to have recruited well again.

I was a bit surprised by this to be honest. It's semi understandable under normal circumstances, but with this year and a new competition, and the fact someone has to come last/second to last, I guess I feel it's slightly harsh. As Aaron himself mentioned, his results haven't been good enough, but they also have one of the weaker rosters. Perhaps when they did the season review, his plans for improvements weren't convincing. None of the games they lost were a "hiding" by any means, most game could have gone either way.

I'll be watching with interest as to whom gets appointed his replacement. It's only relatively recently that the Highlanders were ever really "in contention". Joseph had quite a few pretty average seasons, yet they held faith in him and eventually they got across the line.

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#2556803 4-Sep-2020 10:28

networkn:

I was a bit surprised by this to be honest.

It surprised me. I thought they had improved over last season given the current roster.

So I assume there is another issue (e.g. personality clash) or intention (e.g. Tony Brown as head coach) that has not been publicised.

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