Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2557961 6-Sep-2020 16:30

networkn: That's a shocker I watched it earlier. Farrell has long had issues with his tackling I hope he gets a long long break to consider his techniques and attitudes. He knew instantly and I don't think there was any malice but you could cause a life long injury with that tackle.

I'm not sure what's wrong with his attitudes? He didn't make excuses and he was very concerned with Charlie Atkinsons health on the sideline.

He's got serious problems with his tackling technique, and has had for some time. Sonny-Bill has had similar problems over his career, it's a technical/habit issue more than anything else.

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#2557987 6-Sep-2020 17:01

What's wrong with his attitude? He has gone 5 plua years of regularly getting the wrong type of attention for his tackles and has done nothing about it despite having acknowledged it on prior occasions.

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#2557991 6-Sep-2020 17:07

networkn: What's wrong with his attitude? He has gone 5 plua years of regularly getting the wrong type of attention for his tackles and has done nothing about it despite having acknowledged it on prior occasions.

He's cleaned his tackle technique up a lot. I haven't seen the no arms tackles or shoulder charges for a while.

I don't think Sonny-Bill had an attitude problem either - he had bad technique. Some guys can change it, some can't.

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#2558214 7-Sep-2020 09:23

Handle9:

I don't think Sonny-Bill had an attitude problem either - he had bad technique. Some guys can change it, some can't.

Sophie Pascoe can overcome physical disabilities to win Gold Medals, and Sir Edmund Hillary can climb Everest, but for the safety of everyone who plays against him, Farrell "can't" fix his tackle technique? Bollocks!

If he (Or anyone else for that matter) "can't" (Won't) then he (and anyone else who claims they "can't" (Won't)) should give up Rugby IMO.

SBW came from another sport where brutal hard tackles are still almost cheered for (though it's changing). His tackle technique improved pretty much immediately after his Red Card. Hopefully, this is the wake-up Farrell needs to sort himself out.

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#2558229 7-Sep-2020 09:52

networkn:

Hopefully, this is the wake-up Farrell needs to sort himself out.

It's been years. If it hasn't happened by now, it never will.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/118600538/fans-irate-as-england-captain-owen-farrell-escapes-punishment-for-another-high-tackle

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#2558231 7-Sep-2020 09:55

GV27:

networkn:

Hopefully, this is the wake-up Farrell needs to sort himself out.

It's been years. If it hasn't happened by now, it never will.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/118600538/fans-irate-as-england-captain-owen-farrell-escapes-punishment-for-another-high-tackle

Hopefully, he won't be able to have his sentence shortened due to his "good record" though he seemed immediately contrite. As I said, the tackle in the weekend, I don't think there was intent to harm, it was careless. Having said that, careless can still put people in the hospital.

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#2558503 7-Sep-2020 12:36

Handle9:

I really like abrasive players with an edge to them. Despite all the clap trap that gets talked rugby is a game of confrontation and intimidation. Having Ioane in the side brings a real edge without him being a thug. It's the same reason I prefer Coles to start over Taylor. Taylor is probably the more skilful player but Coles brings a physicality and confrontation that Taylor doesn't.

John Plumtree specifically mentioned brutality in discussing the loosies at an interview. Steve Hansen struck me as a person who particularly enjoyed and was looking for that, though it wasn't as present in his last few years (perhaps just the wrong players available to do it?). Foster strikes me as a "softer" personality. Possibly doesn't have the "edge" or "mongrel" we may need to keep up with England/South Africa..

I also agree that Ioane (R) is a ways away from Center for me. He certainly doesn't look as quick as he used to. He had one decent burst, but was left well behind by Jordan on Saturday night. Despite getting some wraps for his performances at center for the Blues, he doesn't strike me as being anywhere near Goodhue or ALB at their best especially, as you say, defensively.

For all the "confrontation" that Coles brings, a Yellow card or two, negates all the benefit that might bring in my eyes. He seems unable to get that balance right. Compare him to Kaino who was brutal but to my memory never got a hard for getting the balance wrong...

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#2558510 7-Sep-2020 13:09

networkn:

For all the "confrontation" that Coles brings, a Yellow card or two, negates all the benefit that might bring in my eyes. He seems unable to get that balance right. Compare him to Kaino who was brutal but to my memory never got a hard for getting the balance wrong...

I feel this way about Moody also. Good for at least three points for the opposition in any given match. Yet we persist.

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#2559506 7-Sep-2020 13:16

networkn:

As I said, the tackle in the weekend, I don't think there was intent to harm, it was careless. Having said that, careless can still put people in the hospital.

Definitely a reckless tackle in terms of the rugby law:

A player is deemed to have made reckless contact during a tackle or attempted tackle or during other phases of the game if in making contact, the player knew or should have known that there was a risk of making contact with the head of an opponent, but did so anyway.

I saw a tackle setup that leaves no margin for error if anything goes wrong, and it did. He could have avoided it by aiming to hit at chest height.

To me, viewing the shots at constant height, Charlie Atkinson steps back into Farrell and drops his head a whole head height so Farrell who is already committed to the tackle at shoulder height then hits Atkinson too high.

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#2559678 7-Sep-2020 15:31

networkn:
Handle9:

I really like abrasive players with an edge to them. Despite all the clap trap that gets talked rugby is a game of confrontation and intimidation. Having Ioane in the side brings a real edge without him being a thug. It's the same reason I prefer Coles to start over Taylor. Taylor is probably the more skilful player but Coles brings a physicality and confrontation that Taylor doesn't.

John Plumtree specifically mentioned brutality in discussing the loosies at an interview. Steve Hansen struck me as a person who particularly enjoyed and was looking for that, though it wasn't as present in his last few years (perhaps just the wrong players available to do it?). Foster strikes me as a "softer" personality. Possibly doesn't have the "edge" or "mongrel" we may need to keep up with England/South Africa..

I also agree that Ioane (R) is a ways away from Center for me. He certainly doesn't look as quick as he used to. He had one decent burst, but was left well behind by Jordan on Saturday night. Despite getting some wraps for his performances at center for the Blues, he doesn't strike me as being anywhere near Goodhue or ALB at their best especially, as you say, defensively.

For all the "confrontation" that Coles brings, a Yellow card or two, negates all the benefit that might bring in my eyes. He seems unable to get that balance right. Compare him to Kaino who was brutal but to my memory never got a hard for getting the balance wrong...

I totally disagree with you about Ioanes speed. His explosiveness has been back this year I'm not sure why but you consistently seem to have it in for both Ioanes.

I think Ioanes a very good centre now, his improvement from early this season until now is immense. He's only getting better as a centre, he just needs a bit more time.

Jordan was gone, no one was catching him.

Dane Coles has played 69 tests and has 2 yellow cards. Jerome Kaino played 81 tests and got 3. Coles discipline isn't the problem you think it is.

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#2559686 7-Sep-2020 15:41

networkn:
Handle9:

I don't think Sonny-Bill had an attitude problem either - he had bad technique. Some guys can change it, some can't.

Sophie Pascoe can overcome physical disabilities to win Gold Medals, and Sir Edmund Hillary can climb Everest, but for the safety of everyone who plays against him, Farrell "can't" fix his tackle technique? Bollocks!

If he (Or anyone else for that matter) "can't" (Won't) then he (and anyone else who claims they "can't" (Won't)) should give up Rugby IMO.

SBW came from another sport where brutal hard tackles are still almost cheered for (though it's changing). His tackle technique improved pretty much immediately after his Red Card. Hopefully, this is the wake-up Farrell needs to sort himself out.

Sonny-Bill still had the odd mistake. It happens. I don't think it reflects anyone's attitude, niggle on the ground with knees and elbows reflects that.

It's on him to fix his technique but do you honestly believe he or the coaches think "na it's fine?" These guys train like hell to improve their game but still struggle with bad technique and muscle memory. Beauden Barrett still throws passes with weird technique under pressure - it's the way he's done it his whole life.

Do you think that Farrell was trying to take his head off intentionally? He was trying to make a big tackle (which we all love) and got wrong. It's a very confrontational sport and mistakes will happen. The ref sent him off which was the correct decision.

It's not acceptable and he'll get a lengthy holiday. He needs to sort out his tackle technique. His attitude is fine.

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#2559856 7-Sep-2020 20:07

It's on him to fix his technique but do you honestly believe he or the coaches think "na it's fine?" These guys train like hell to improve their game but still struggle with bad technique and muscle memory. Beauden Barrett still throws passes with weird technique under pressure - it's the way he's done it his whole life.

Yes, I *do* think he thinks it's "OK". By the merit of his continuing to be careless. He doesn't think it's ok on the surface, but in reality, there isn't a deep belief the problem is really that serious.

Earlier this year he led with his shoulder (Which *is* intentional). He didn't get cited, but it's still very poor technique which can cause injury. I will never accept that someone can't overcome muscle memory. If he can't do it, Rugby is probably too hard for him.

Throwing a pass wrong, doesn't risk incredibly serious injury, it's not even *remotely* the same thing.

Do you think that Farrell was trying to take his head off intentionally? He was trying to make a big tackle (which we all love) and got wrong. It's a very confrontational sport and mistakes will happen. The ref sent him off which was the correct decision.

It's not acceptable and he'll get a lengthy holiday. He needs to sort out his tackle technique. His attitude is fine.

I have repeatedly stated it wasn't intentional, but it's careless.

All over the world, every week *massive* tackles happen in Rugby. The majority of them are done "safely".

Owen Farrell (and the people around him) does have an attitude problem. He simply doesn't consider the issue enough of a problem to do whatever it takes to fix it.

I suspect if he gets a lengthy holiday (and I predict his punishment will be pathetic), then he *may* consider the consequences enough to seriously address it.

Genuine freak accidents do happen in sport, Rugby, especially with so many moving parts. This wasn't that, it was careless.

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#2559910 7-Sep-2020 20:37

I think you are trying to infer something that's not there and drawing a very long bow to do so. We will continue to disagree.

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#2559991 7-Sep-2020 23:21

Handle9:

I think you are trying to infer something that's not there and drawing a very long bow to do so. We will continue to disagree.

There is no long bow.

If there is, it's certainly no longer than the one you draw, to excuse an able-bodied seemingly intelligent professional sportsman, paid a healthy six, if not seven-figure income, from acts of recklessness or carelessness, endangering others because of "muscle memory".

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#2559992 7-Sep-2020 23:22

networkn:

Handle9:

I think you are trying to infer something that's not there and drawing a very long bow to do so. We will continue to disagree.

There is no long bow.

If there is, it's certainly no longer than the one you draw, to excuse an able-bodied seemingly intelligent professional sportsman, paid a healthy six, if not seven-figure income, from acts of recklessness or carelessness, endangering others because of "muscle memory".

Give it a rest. We disagree.

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