Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2576552 30-Sep-2020 15:22

Jas777: If they do get stuck in quarantine then see who of the 46 are willing to do it and send the most needed to be here home.

Probably not allowed to do but could see if allow some family in NZ to go to Australia and spend Christmas there before come home

There is talk of a Bubble between NSW and South Island, so I guess the Players go from the last game to NSW and families can come in and go and spend Xmas together in NSW. They would need to Quarantine on re-entry, but that's also an option.

There IS a solution to this, if people are willing to be flexible.

Handle9

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#2576669 30-Sep-2020 18:16

tukapa1: I reckon they should just have a Baby Black's game for the last one and give all the young fullas a run and send the family men home early. It's not like they haven't devalued the jersey in the past with rotation, rest and sabbaticals.

Or the players can do their job. They are professionals. They have taken pay cuts and the option is certainly there for them to volunteer to take further cuts instead of playing.

I (normally) travel extensively for work. Sometimes I am away for family occasions as that is the job. It's not ideal but I am compensated for this. It's my job. In the current situation, and living overseas, I don't expect to visit New Zealand for another 2 years. Once again I am compensated for this and fortunate to have a very good job.

Is it great. Of course not. Is it the end of the world if they miss one Christmas? Of course not.

dafman

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#2576698 30-Sep-2020 19:04

Covid impacts many people in different ways. Thousands in Aotearoa have lost their jobs, many lost their businesses. Some lost their life. The ABs may have to spend one Xmas day together in a 4-star hotel apart from their family. Helps to put things into perspective.

tukapa1

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#2576906 1-Oct-2020 07:00

networkn:

NZR feels pretty confident there was at least a verbal agreement, why otherwise act surprised and upset if they knew all along they had agreed to not be home for Xmas?

There is a lot more to this than is being reported and it's ridiculous to think NZR is always to blame for everything. There is plenty of Arrogance and foolishness to go around.

IF we hadn't gone back into L3/L2 lockdown, I believe it would have almost certainly would have been that the RC would have been hosted here. If we refused to move the schedule as has been indicated, then NZR were stupid, but I'd want proof before assuming anything said by anyone is actually true at this point. Different people within ARU are saying different things.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/300120923/leaked-minutes-from-sanzaar-meeting-show-nz-rugby-agreed-to-sixweek-rugby-championship

Still believe NZR now? Robinson wouldn't answer questions about the meeting the minutes are from.

Handle9

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#2576913 1-Oct-2020 07:18

There's probably an element of truth on both sides but clearly there isn't much goodwill towards NZR.

Robinson claiming that there isn't a problem with NZRs relationship with the ARU just smacks of being delusional. There's clearly massive problems there that aren't resolved. If there was a strong relationship then these things don't happen.

My view is that NZR screwed up massively with their super rugby nonsense and Australia and South Africa feel humiliated. There are also rumours that they overplayed their hand with the rugby championship negotations. The other Sanzaar nations are getting a bit of utu. I doubt they are treating NZ entirely fairly but why would they? NZR haven't behaved in a way that gives them any moral high ground.

South Africa have fired plenty of shots on their way up to the northern hemisphere.

In my opinion NZR need to eat some humble pie and learn how play nicely with others.

GV27

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#2576914 1-Oct-2020 07:30

Good riddance to the SA teams tbh. Towards the end their teams added little than logistical headaches to the competition and they had been threatening to run off to the NH for years.

I suspect the Australians feel they haves something to prove after the Castle years, which may explain some overreach on their part, but we seem to be making it easy for them to take the moral high ground.

NZR has the superior product but is a very small fish. They were already isolated over the RWC chair vote and now they seem happy trying to rark up whatever friends they have left. Why we can't have a 5 + 4 + Arg + Japan + Pacific competition is beyond me.

networkn

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#2577012 1-Oct-2020 09:19

tukapa1:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/300120923/leaked-minutes-from-sanzaar-meeting-show-nz-rugby-agreed-to-sixweek-rugby-championship

Still believe NZR now? Robinson wouldn't answer questions about the meeting the minutes are from.

So the CEO of NZR, knowing there is a written account that directly conflicts his clearly stated position they didn't agree to it, makes a huge song and dance, allows his employees to do the same. I mean, a rational person knows it's going to end up being proven otherwise.

I am not really sure what to think, to be honest. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, if he agreed to the 6 week competition, he simply says so, apologises to the players he couldn't do better and tells them to get their butts to Australia and miss one family Xmas. Not ideal, but understandable

in the circumstances. Why would he go to such lengths to put himself in a compromised position? If it's true he will have eroded the trust with his entire team, players, management and the NZ Public. It's dumb and he doesn't strike me as dumb.

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tukapa1

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#2577205 1-Oct-2020 12:50

networkn:
tukapa1:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/300120923/leaked-minutes-from-sanzaar-meeting-show-nz-rugby-agreed-to-sixweek-rugby-championship

Still believe NZR now? Robinson wouldn't answer questions about the meeting the minutes are from.

So the CEO of NZR, knowing there is a written account that directly conflicts his clearly stated position they didn't agree to it, makes a huge song and dance, allows his employees to do the same. I mean, a rational person knows it's going to end up being proven otherwise.

I am not really sure what to think, to be honest. It just doesn't make sense. I mean, if he agreed to the 6 week competition, he simply says so, apologises to the players he couldn't do better and tells them to get their butts to Australia and miss one family Xmas. Not ideal, but understandable

in the circumstances. Why would he go to such lengths to put himself in a compromised position? If it's true he will have eroded the trust with his entire team, players, management and the NZ Public. It's dumb and he doesn't strike me as dumb.

I agree completely - he's not dumb. I had high hopes for Robinson being one of the best CEOs we've had for a long long time.

He had the opportunity to directly reference the leaked minutes but chose to talk all around it. Seems quite simple - either the minutes exist so admit that, or they don't exist so refute it.

Dancing around a simple question smacks of dishonesty and that is not what Robinson is about.

networkn

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#2577207 1-Oct-2020 12:53

tukapa1:

I agree completely - he's not dumb. I had high hopes for Robinson being one of the best CEOs we've had for a long long time.

He had the opportunity to directly reference the leaked minutes but chose to talk all around it. Seems quite simple - either the minutes exist so admit that, or they don't exist so refute it.

Dancing around a simple question smacks of dishonesty and that is not what Robinson is about.

I mean, to be honest, even if he made a mistake, it happens, if he owned it immediately, it would be forgotten by most people a couple of weeks from now, makes me think there is more to it than is being reported. There are some comments online about the veracity of the minutes, dates etc.

Who knows, it will come out in the wash. If it turns out he was outrightly lying, I think his credibility would be shot and he would need to consider resigning, but he can't have been the only one from NZR who was involved.

Something just doesn't add up here.

networkn

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#2577451 1-Oct-2020 20:26

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12369674

This is just bizzare. I honestly don't know what to believe.

I am not sure I love the new format for 2020 and 2021. I personally like having a bit of variety in my games, and watching Kiwi Teams smash each other every week was on one hand entertaining from a quality of rugby perspective, but worrying from a player safety perspective.

Hopefully, they can get some Aussie teams in the mix.

Handle9

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#2577456 1-Oct-2020 20:33

The level of spin is quite hilarious. It's like a husband whose wife is leaving him saying their marriage is fine. NZR may believe they have a good relationship with their partners but the partners clearly don't seem to feel the same way. I really feel that Impey and Robinson are out of their depth and there will need to be changes if they can't get a reset of the international relationships. NZR has done a pretty good job of shredding their international position over the last few years.

The reports for the 2022 competition are the Western Force, Bay of Plenty/Chinese team and the Pacific team. It hardly seems a compelling competition.

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#2577510 1-Oct-2020 22:17

There are reports that Foxtel have offered to extend their current deal at similar money to what they have been paying. If is is the case that would be a huge win for the ARU and a real vindication of Raylene Castle declining their previous massively reduced offer.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/foxtel-lodges-bid-with-ra-for-broadcast-rights-20201001-p5613w.html

Hammerer

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#2577820 2-Oct-2020 09:42

networkn:

I am not sure I love the new format for 2020 and 2021. I personally like having a bit of variety in my games, and watching Kiwi Teams smash each other every week was on one hand entertaining from a quality of rugby perspective, but worrying from a player safety perspective.

Hopefully, they can get some Aussie teams in the mix.

I've already decided that I won't watch, which means I also won't pay for, a competition that doesn't involve Australia or another leading rugby nation.

I still remember the great leap forward to international Super Rugby. It took 2-3 years to stabilise but it gave us a much more interesting and inspiring competition than what we had beforehand.

I'm not prepared to support any move to focus on a domestic competition where my loyalties are so severely fractured. I'm primarily a Hurricanes supporter but have supported the Highlanders because I lived there quite a while. Yet Super Rugby players I love now roam throughout all the teams so it dilutes my support for both. Here's an example: when Beauden Barrett turns out for the Blues against the Hurricanes, I've found that the sharp edge of competition is blunted because I've got divided loyalties. No fear of that happening if we're playing Australian teams.

IMO, the risk of a NZ-only competition is quite low. But the consequences will generally be negative apart from ensuring a higher quality of play when two great teams meet. I'd gladly trade a small drop in the quality of play for a more interesting and partisan competition. The NPC already shows me that works for me: on average a lower level of quality play but a consistent partisan competition because the NPC retains player-affiliation at a provincial level and I don't have to watch a merry-go-round of player transfers.

networkn

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#2577921 2-Oct-2020 12:10

I love Rugby too much to not watch, but I agree with the majority of the sentiments you have raised.

I sometimes struggle with the ever-changing rosters, but it bothers me a little less I guess.

Kiwi teams play a pretty similar style, and we lose our edge internationally by not getting to play teams who play different styles, the experience of travelling to different locations, acclimating etc.. It's important in my opinion.

Jas777

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#2578034 2-Oct-2020 14:22

Hammerer:

networkn:

I am not sure I love the new format for 2020 and 2021. I personally like having a bit of variety in my games, and watching Kiwi Teams smash each other every week was on one hand entertaining from a quality of rugby perspective, but worrying from a player safety perspective.

Hopefully, they can get some Aussie teams in the mix.

I've already decided that I won't watch, which means I also won't pay for, a competition that doesn't involve Australia or another leading rugby nation.

I still remember the great leap forward to international Super Rugby. It took 2-3 years to stabilise but it gave us a much more interesting and inspiring competition than what we had beforehand.

I'm not prepared to support any move to focus on a domestic competition where my loyalties are so severely fractured. I'm primarily a Hurricanes supporter but have supported the Highlanders because I lived there quite a while. Yet Super Rugby players I love now roam throughout all the teams so it dilutes my support for both. Here's an example: when Beauden Barrett turns out for the Blues against the Hurricanes, I've found that the sharp edge of competition is blunted because I've got divided loyalties. No fear of that happening if we're playing Australian teams.

IMO, the risk of a NZ-only competition is quite low. But the consequences will generally be negative apart from ensuring a higher quality of play when two great teams meet. I'd gladly trade a small drop in the quality of play for a more interesting and partisan competition. The NPC already shows me that works for me: on average a lower level of quality play but a consistent partisan competition because the NPC retains player-affiliation at a provincial level and I don't have to watch a merry-go-round of player transfers.

How can you have a competition in 2021 with more than 1 country when have to quarantine for 2 weeks? Because quarantine in NZ will be here for a long time yet.

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