Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2582060 9-Oct-2020 19:24

The backline today is weird. It's both bold (starting Ioane) and really indecisive (both Barretts and Mo'unga playing). I'm quite unconvinced by it.

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#2582062 9-Oct-2020 19:34

Handle9: The backline today is weird. It's both bold (starting Ioane) and really indecisive (both Barretts and Mo'unga playing). I'm quite unconvinced by it.

To be honest, I'm a bit perplexed by parts of the backline.

Jordie should be at fullback with a specialist winger on the wing. He was far and away the standout fullback of super rugby. I'd start with Beauden at 10. I think if he can keep his ego in check Rieko will become an outstanding centre. He showed some class in super rugby. Surprised he's starting in the first test however. Like the look of Clarke on the wing.

Forwards pretty much picked themselves.

I'm hoping the Aussies go well. Rennie is a likeable rooster and it would be good for him to turn the fortunes of the Aussies. We need them to be strong.

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#2582696 11-Oct-2020 18:23

That was a really fun game in really difficult conditions. A mixture of the normal first game of the season jitters from both sides combined with some really fun stuff. One thing that really stood out was that the Australian team spent much more energy playing and less complaining.

Both sides were very limited in attack, they clearly hadn't had enough game time together to get it together consistently. I was really disappointed by our kick chase, especially in the first half. Just terrible with no kicking to regather. The wind made it difficult but the northern hemisphere sides are so much better in this phase and it makes a big difference.

Obviously a horrible mistake from Ioane and he and Barrett got a bit confused in the first Australian try. It looked like a combination that had only had a week together. He still looked like our most dangerous back by a long way. No one else really looked like penetrating the line. I was surprised that they didn't run Goodhue more on the crash ball. If they aren't going to use him that way they should be playing ALB, his passing game at 12 is much better than Goodhue.

The forwards were good at set piece and great at the defensive breakdown but absolutely no go forward on attack. Tuipolotu wasn't as good as he could be and they couldn't use his carrying to get go forward. I wonder whether they want another ball carrier in the loose forwards. Frizzel got through a ton of work but didn't really carry at all.

Once Ioane went off we had no penetration in the backs. Mo'unga was anonymous, with one really bad mistake kicking to touch from a penalty. He seems to do this every 2-3 games and he just needs to get touch and not get so greedy. I'd start Clarke next week, he made a big difference when he came on, he was able to break tackles in traffic.

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#2582731 11-Oct-2020 20:25

Horrible mistake? The crowd I was with called it showboating and I notice a few pundits as well. Who does that in wet conditions!? I agree he was good on attack, but not that great on defense. I was surprised by the decision to put ALB at 13 when Goodhue is a more natural 13 for my money.

That was probably Mo'unga's worst game. He really only took the line one, and seemed unsure and uncertain and even his distribution was average at best (he is easily our best passing 10 usually).

That was a very tense last few minutes and we are lucky to have drawn in my view.

MacKenzie had a really tough time under the high ball, but he did have a couple of great plays too.

Not a bad performance by our debutants I have to say, though I think Australias Matt Philip was the best player on the field from all the first timers.

That kick by Hodge was an absoloute *monster*

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#2582734 11-Oct-2020 20:45

Lol. It's very surprising to see you criticising Ioane and characterising him in the worst possible way. I am totally shocked.

For the Australian try Jordie Barrett was in no mans land. I just watched it a few times on Youtube. Cane, Mo'unga, Goodhue and Ioane were in a rush formation marking up (4 on 4) while Barrett was half up. I'm not sure if it was Barretts fault or Ioane, It looked like Ioane was on the crash ball but Barrett wasn't connected. There have also been a fair few tries scored against the All Blacks coming around the centre in recent years so it may be a pattern problem.

All of the back 3s from both sides had problems in the air, Australias kick chase was better and they contested more. It was pretty challenging in the wind, no one was able to read it.

Mo'unga got no ball but he also didn't take much control. The All Blacks (like many teams) play all the crash ball off the forwards and 9 is the principle play maker and kicker. 10 and 12 very rarely features in general play anymore. Most of the NZ sides play like this. It'd be good to see a bit more variety.

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#2582739 11-Oct-2020 21:01

Handle9:

Lol. It's very surprising to see you criticising Ioane and characterising him in the worst possible way. I am totally shocked.

Probably no more surprising for me, than you taking the opposing position.

There are no shortage of comments from plenty of people making the same assessment. It's a risky enough way to score in the dry.

On an unrelated note, I don't get JB playing the wing at all. We have great talent on the wings, and JB is a far better fullback and certainly on form, better than MacKenzie (especially defensively) and with a bigger boot as well. I do wonder if it had been JB playing fullback if he would have managed to stop Australia scoring in that corner. MacKenzie has no shortage of bravery, I just don't really think he is good enough defensively, nor big enough to stop those bigger wingers.

Caleb Clarke is a strong guy. I think he broke every first tackle.

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#2582750 11-Oct-2020 21:24

Hopefully, with what should be considered a fantastic game from Sam Cane, some of the Naysayers will cease with the critism of him. He is easily one of NZ's best defensive tacklers.

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#2582768 11-Oct-2020 22:48

networkn:

Hopefully, with what should be considered a fantastic game from Sam Cane, some of the Naysayers will cease with the critism of him. He is easily one of NZ's best defensive tacklers.

He was really good. In the press conference he looked like he'd been in a boxing match.

Hooper was really good as well and seems like a new man this year. Both Foster and Cane made a point to congratulate him in the press conference for 100 tests.

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#2582770 11-Oct-2020 23:00

BTW if you want to see what I mean about the defensive pattern perhaps being the problem take a look at this. It shows how the All Blacks fly up in the first 3-4 defenders off 9, which is exactly what Cane, Mounga, Goodhue and Ioane did. It could still have been a misread from Ioane but it could equally be a systemic or wing failure.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-how-the-all-blacks-defend-and-where-all-the-weak-points-are/

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#2582808 12-Oct-2020 07:28

It was good to see the two teams sharing a drink and honouring Hoopers hundred games. With both coaches moving on they seem to have put some of the unnecessary animosity behind them.

https://twitter.com/wallabies/status/1315215128124506112?s=09

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#2582824 12-Oct-2020 08:45

networkn:

Hopefully, with what should be considered a fantastic game from Sam Cane, some of the Naysayers will cease with the critism of him. He is easily one of NZ's best defensive tacklers.

Yes, Sam Cane had a really good game.

The problem isn't with the quality of his play, it's his susceptibility to injury, particularly a head knock.
I am pleased but surprised each game that he doesn't come off for an HIA

I'm worried that he'll be told after the next head injury, like Jock Hobbs was, "you can go back playing or have a career post-rugby. Your pick"
:(

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#2582827 12-Oct-2020 08:52

The majority of people criticising Cane's selection as captain, were not doing so for his injury proneness (I think he has been pretty unlucky rather than there being a fault with his technique etc), but rather whether he was the form 7 at this stage, which based on SRA he wasn't. I had some doubts after seeing some non-admirable behaviour on field a few times this year. Cane has proven himself to be a monster at AB's level over a long period and I felt the criticism was unwarranted. We have had many great players including Ma'a Nonu who were rubbish at lower levels but became supermen wearing the black Jersey. I think Canes performance last night should have put a stop to the questions.

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#2582830 12-Oct-2020 09:00

I think the calls that Foster is under pressure and that Rennie is the saviour of the Wallabies are silly. One game, the first of the season, after a disrupted season at lower levels, is not an indication at all of where either team is at. The Wallabies performed admirably, but I feel the AB's were very passive and rusty, and I suspect 2-3 games from now would be a better guage. It wouldn't surprise me to see the AB's have a decent game next week and have a decent gap in the scoreline. I also see pundits dumping the prior bad performances soley at the feet of Chieka, which I also consider silly.

@handle9 I am also glad to see some comraderie between the two teams, though, it is rare for teams not to share a beer afterward, even with administrations bickering at each other. I am glad to see the AB's making suitable acknowledgement of Hooper, who I think has been the best and hardest working Wallabie for quite a few years.

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#2583090 12-Oct-2020 13:06

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/123055514/speculation-mounts-that-springboks-may-pull-out-of-the-rugby-championship-in-australia

I would imagine they would be contracted to play, and they would face severe penalties for failing to show?

I mean, if they don't feel they can be ready, then why did they agree to play in the first place?

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#2583137 12-Oct-2020 14:56

networkn:

I think the calls that Foster is under pressure and that Rennie is the saviour of the Wallabies are silly. One game, the first of the season, after a disrupted season at lower levels, is not an indication at all of where either team is at. The Wallabies performed admirably, but I feel the AB's were very passive and rusty, and I suspect 2-3 games from now would be a better guage. It wouldn't surprise me to see the AB's have a decent game next week and have a decent gap in the scoreline. I also see pundits dumping the prior bad performances soley at the feet of Chieka, which I also consider silly.

@handle9 I am also glad to see some comraderie between the two teams, though, it is rare for teams not to share a beer afterward, even with administrations bickering at each other. I am glad to see the AB's making suitable acknowledgement of Hooper, who I think has been the best and hardest working Wallabie for quite a few years.

Maybe the All Blacks will get a victory in Auckland. But to me all that well do is cover over the cracks.

Last year the All blacks were poor and the style of rugby was easy to combat.

I don't think much has changed. Not sure our talent is that much better than other teams. Yes we have a greater talent pool so our Super teams as a whole will be better but at All Black level they look a bit indifferent.

Not sure that continuing with Foster after Hansen is going to fix the issues.

Could be next year or the year after a big shake up is needed.

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