Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2604891 16-Nov-2020 16:44

Discipline shows up in a lot of areas. Consistently making the same ridiculous errors is a glaring example.

Mounga has kicked the ball dead in goal from a penalty 4 times this year that I recall. He's been doing the same thing for years. He got away with it in 2018 against the springboks but it's clearly something which hasn't been corrected. Guys making forced errors aren't great but I can live with it. Basic unforced errors like that, happening over and over again isn't acceptable.

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#2604898 16-Nov-2020 17:21

Handle9: Discipline shows up in a lot of areas. Consistently making the same ridiculous errors is a glaring example.

Mounga has kicked the ball dead in goal from a penalty 4 times this year that I recall. He's been doing the same thing for years. He got away with it in 2018 against the springboks but it's clearly something which hasn't been corrected. Guys making forced errors aren't great but I can live with it. Basic unforced errors like that, happening over and over again isn't acceptable.

Or players dropping the ball in near certain scoring positions.

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#2604901 16-Nov-2020 17:24

Are you trying to make a point or just be a dick?

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#2604913 16-Nov-2020 17:59

Handle9: Are you trying to make a point or just be a dick?

I was making the point you are very selective in who you critisize or compliment. You seemed upset when I was supposedly doing it.

Mo'unga's positive contributions have far outstripped his mistakes, in this year at any level.

There are other players who have had a more negative effect on the outcome of the past 5 games than him.

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#2604914 16-Nov-2020 18:05

networkn:

Handle9: Are you trying to make a point or just be a dick?

I was making the point you are very selective in who you critisize or compliment. You seemed upset when I was supposedly doing it.

Mo'unga's positive contributions have far outstripped his mistakes, in this year at any level.

There are other players who have had a more negative effect on the outcome of the past 5 games than him.

The point isn't specific to Mo'unga, it's a wider issue across the team and has been for the last few years. Basic errors aren't being corrected. Missing touch from a penalty is terrible, doing it over and over again is insane.

tukapa1

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#2604920 16-Nov-2020 18:29

I do find it funny (but not surprising) that people bagged Beauden Barrett and blamed the loss against the Aussies in a large part on his game. The calls to get the wizard Mounga back in the team were long and loud by his supporters.

They're very quiet now, but not calling for his removal. It's now the forwards fault.

He could kick every penalty dead, miss touch regularly and make no breaks and it will be someone elses fault.

They're both good players (hell, one has been world player of the year twice), but the Canterbury influence is pervasive, much like the Auckland influence was in the 80's. I've even heard some Canterbury supporters claiming Mitchell Drummond should be in the AB's. Good god! He's pedestrian at best.

Everyone outside of Auckland hated Auckland in the 80's, so it should come as no surprise to Canterbury supporters that people want to see them lose. The difference is Auckland owned their arrogance in the 80's, Canterbury supporters seem to be hurt by this fact. Wear it as a badge of pride.

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#2604925 16-Nov-2020 18:55

networkn:

Handle9: Are you trying to make a point or just be a dick?

I was making the point you are very selective in who you critisize or compliment. You seemed upset when I was supposedly doing it.

Mo'unga's positive contributions have far outstripped his mistakes, in this year at any level.

There are other players who have had a more negative effect on the outcome of the past 5 games than him.

I didn't understand your cryptic point so thanks for explaining it.

Mo'unga is probably getting a lot more attention than some other players because of all the fans who lauded him and clamoured for his promotion.

Of the two mistakes, Mo'unga's was by far the worst. It was a major opportunity lost when he didn't have many opportunities to turn the game in the All Black's favour. There's no certainty the team would have got a try but if they had then the landscape would have changed for the second half. Instead the Pumas played even better and I doubt preventing Ioane's dropped ball would have changed the outcome.

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#2604932 16-Nov-2020 19:28

Hammerer:

Of the two mistakes, Mo'unga's was by far the worst. It was a major opportunity lost when he didn't have many opportunities to turn the game in the All Black's favour. There's no certainty the team would have got a try but if they had then the landscape would have changed for the second half. Instead the Pumas played even better and I doubt preventing Ioane's dropped ball would have changed the outcome.

A try at either opportunity had a reasonable chance of changing the outcome. It casts the doubt in the opposition and gives belief to the players. The AB's have won at the death so many times. Of the two opportunities, I think Ioanes dropped ball would have more likely resulted in a try, they were stretched defensively. We will never know I guess.

The cries for Mo'ungas inclusion in the AB's were no less than Ioanes, or Laumapes or BB's in the day. The hype overall when someone has one breakout season at Super Rugby annoys me, something I have mentioned here before. I think players are included before they are ready, which is partly because it's what the fans want, and there is a risk if they don't get included, they get picked up by another international team. I thought a number of players were brought into the AB's too early. I was fine if Mo'unga wasn't included till the year after and I felt Ioane, Reece, and Jordie Barret were a little bit underdone.

I am super disappointed at the two losses, but I'm way more frustrated with the poor discipline (and yes, that's everywhere across the park). Coles slap of Matera was a disgrace, it really upset him (he made a comment about respect because he was playing for his country and it really made him super determined the whole rest of the game). Frizzel as well. I understand it's seen by some as gamesmanship, and trying to rattle your opponent, but it entirely backfired. Even if it hadn't, it's just stupid. If you need that to win, I'd rather lose.

The Los Pumas deserve credit for an incredible performance. Their determination and stamina was amazing. I haven't looked at the stats but someone said today they only missed 2 tackles all game?

Our players need to take a good long hard look at themselves. This was less about Foster and more about them.

tdgeek

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#2604938 16-Nov-2020 19:51

Hmm, unsure if I should comment here. However... When Richie and Dan and Jane and many other key players left, that IMHO was huge. IIRC we played some island nation in the early part of the following season, and won, (obviously) and we were apparently the best team ever. OMG. When I posted along those lines here, I was hammered. Its the national team one of our Mikes said. So what?? Off course I want any NZ team to win, because a 5 million population/per capita win is huge in any sport for us, but it dries up very quickly for me when we over rate ourselves. I always took it as a rebuilding period, but every win was amazing and every loss had excuses. I made a bunch when ENG beat us in RWC and when we drew with AUS recently. I took it as what I felt it was, we are very good but we are not great. When another side plays a game that is not our game, we don't adapt these days. Its still the same. AUS has been poor, ARG is not great but like France dont under estimate them. These continual performances show IMHO where we are. Rebuilding. Having a few players that we can rate as Richie and Dan level doesn't make a team. A team makes a team

Im unsure how much to blame Foster. How much value is a coach? They decide key strategy. Who makes the call if that fails or ENG/AUS/ARG are dominating? Foster doesn't score tries.

So hammer away and beat me up. There is a world of difference between the Dan and Richie days and now. Potential. HUGE, but thats tomorrow not today.

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#2604942 16-Nov-2020 20:06

tukapa1:

Everyone outside of Auckland hated Auckland in the 80's, so it should come as no surprise to Canterbury supporters that people want to see them lose. The difference is Auckland owned their arrogance in the 80's, Canterbury supporters seem to be hurt by this fact. Wear it as a badge of pride.

I think you'll find they feel 'hurt' by that fact, because most Cantabrian Rugby supporters wouldn't consider themselves arrogant and would be offended to be called that. It's one thing to be proud (which is how I feel), it's a different thing to be arrogant.

Jas777

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#2604943 16-Nov-2020 20:09

As I said before the opposition have worked out how to stop the All Blacks. Having Foster there makes it even easier. I wonder too what affect having the same voice has on them.

Having the Super rugby teams all play a very similar style makes it easier to as nothing to change to.

One interesting fact in the last game the most represented super rugby team was the chiefs, who didn't win a game and had a coach whose Wales time was getting easy to beat also

Handle9

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#2604944 16-Nov-2020 20:10

networkn:

tukapa1:

Everyone outside of Auckland hated Auckland in the 80's, so it should come as no surprise to Canterbury supporters that people want to see them lose. The difference is Auckland owned their arrogance in the 80's, Canterbury supporters seem to be hurt by this fact. Wear it as a badge of pride.

I think you'll find they feel 'hurt' by that fact, because most Cantabrian Rugby supporters wouldn't consider themselves arrogant and would be offended to be called that. It's one thing to be proud (which is how I feel), it's a different thing to be arrogant.

There is no one more offensive than a horrible Cantabrian, especially towards Aucklanders.

It's a lot better since the earthquake but it can still be very nasty.

tdgeek

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#2604945 16-Nov-2020 20:11

I agree on that. Any sport is tough, if you are on top, enjoy it, that never lasts. Then you can enjoy the ride back with all its peaks and hollows. Thats sport in a nutshell.

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#2604946 16-Nov-2020 20:13

Handle9:

There is no one more offensive than a horrible Cantabrian, especially towards Aucklanders.

It's a lot better since the earthquake but it can still be very nasty.

Isn't that over rated? Im a Cantabrian, yes we laugh when a minor shake spills the latte or they get a snowflake on Queen St. its not serious, surely anyone can see that

its banter pure and simple.

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#2604948 16-Nov-2020 20:15

Handle9:

It's a lot better since the earthquake but it can still be very nasty.

I can easily recall the posts in social media. Sick of this EQ news, Im over it. Yes Im sure it got boring, it did for us as well, but yes, push the knife in.

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