Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2609085 23-Nov-2020 13:33

networkn:

Tasmans result didn't reflect how badly they played, how undisciplined they were. They were exceptionally lucky to not be without a second player to a yellow for endless infringements. All of that said as a big Tasman fan.

Hawkes Bay totally smoked Taranaki with some beautiful Rugby.

Australia didn't seem to learn from the AB's the prior weekend, allowing themselves to get dragged into niggle and initating plenty themselves. Galvanised Argentina into another fierce defensive effort. Probably saved our bacon to be honest.

Hopefully, next weekend we have some hope at a real AB's performance with significantly improved discipline.

Tasman did enough to stop Bay of Plenty from executing their game plan of the last couple of weeks which was good. Auckland didn't look that good so the final could be anyone's. I wonder how much an effect playing a night game had on BOP as they have not played that many in the competition.

Got to think Hawkes Bay a clear favourite.

So true about Australia, that got stuck in the forward battle and not use their backs.

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#2609089 23-Nov-2020 13:39

Jas777:

Tasman did enough to stop Bay of Plenty from executing their game plan of the last couple of weeks which was good.

I really dislike how negative they were during the game, infringing constantly and blatantly rather than playing.

Their attack looks incredibly muted compared to the roster they possess.

Jas777

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Ultimate Geek

#2609099 23-Nov-2020 13:50

networkn:

I really dislike how negative they were during the game, infringing constantly and blatantly rather than playing.

Their attack looks incredibly muted compared to the roster they possess.

I know their roster looks good on paper but a some of them are backups in Super teams. A couple will be very good soon. So they are not streets ahead of other backs in the competition.

I think this year the turnover in forwards is what has bought them back to the pack.

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#2609102 23-Nov-2020 13:55

Jas777:

I know their roster looks good on paper but a some of them are backups in Super teams. A couple will be very good soon. So they are not streets ahead of other backs in the competition.

I think this year the turnover in forwards is what has bought them back to the pack.

Yeah, they are missing a few AB's as well, who usually glue them together a bit better.

David Havilli really should be next cab off the ranks for the AB in the backs. He hasn't reached the highs of a couple of seasons ago, but he quietly goes about his business, is a reasonable goal kicker and his distribution is accurate and well timed.

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#2609593 24-Nov-2020 09:21

I don't really attribute as much of this years average performances by the AB's to Ian Foster, but the players. Where I think Foster wears the blame is poor selection choices. We have so many players playing out of position it's crazy. Jordie isn't a winger, 12 and 13 are around the wrong way in my opinion, Ioane isn't a centre (or yet at least). The issue is where you put Beauden if Jordie is fullback and Ioane is back at Wing. I guess Mo'unga rides the pine and BB is at 10.

To my mind we have a team who's mental game isn't as strong as it was previously. They don't seem to have that edge about them and that drive. To my mind, this weekend is pretty critical (obviously given it's the last game of the year and probably for 9 months at least), but even a huge performance wouldn't necessarily remove some of the doubt that's almost certainly starting to take hold. We don't really have a good picture as to what our best combinations are, any sense of a clear direction. Some of that is down to a relatively short international season with limited opponents.

Jas777

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#2609781 24-Nov-2020 13:54

You missed the main reasons.

Lack of depth at halfback, if Smith has a poor game then the backline has a poor game.

The dearth of quality props. Now that Moody is at the backend of his career

The lack of depth at lock.

Playing 2 openside flankers and not a ball running number 8.

Handle9

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#2610836 25-Nov-2020 22:06

It is incredibly tragic news about Christophe Dominici. He was a brilliant player and has had an awful end to his life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55056643

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#2611171 26-Nov-2020 14:04

I've tried and tried to understand Fosters selections. I know he doesn't make these decisions on his own, and I do trust Fox as a selector, but we have never played very well with players out of position, the combinations we have been building aren't clicking. I think Reece would have been on the wing for me this week. Weber as replacement HB. The two biggest things for me is a more dominant forwards performance and a massively improved discipline. I think the 10/15 combination is OK. I want to see more from Richie this week though.

I expect a different result on Saturday

Re the England Ireland game, I didn't get to watch it, but I watched extended highlights and saw the stats. England gave away more ruck turnovers and penalties in kickable positions, and Ireland didn't take one of them. A little like us against Argentina.

I am not keen to go back to the days where games are played/won in 3's honestly, but sometimes you have to get some points. I just think that the AB's figured right till the end, that Argentina would run out of steam.

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#2612514 29-Nov-2020 05:53

It's hard to know how to judge the All Blacks game vs Argentina. Argentina made 10 changes and were pretty terrible. At the same time the All Blacks forwards were much better with the front row totally dominant, until the subs came on anyway. The use of inside balls and chips to create space was also noticeable.

Akira Ioane had his second excellent game in a row. He's probably done enough to be first can off the rank at 6 if he has another good super campaign. I'd really like to see a combination of Ioane, Sotutu and Cane tried. Savea hasn't had the same consistent impact this year and it's be interesting to see if a slightly different balance would make sense. The development of depth at 6 and 8 are probably the highlights of the season.

The back play continues to be pretty rubbish. No one is really driving the show and both Barrett and Mo'unga were noticeably slow to get set on attack. This backline isn't functional at all and needs significant improvement. The quality of kicking was just terrible. The intent made sense but the execution of cross kicks and bombs was rubbish.

There were at least two tries totally butchered, once by Savea being incredibly selfish and once by ALB turning a ball inside when he had at least 3 guys unmarked outside.

There needs to be a serious rethink of the attack over summer.

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#2612516 29-Nov-2020 07:10

England Wales was an incredibly boring game played in the dark. The lights weren't good enough for a club game with hot spots and dark bits everywhere.

Dingbatt

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#2612553 29-Nov-2020 10:08

NZ vs Arg.

A win built on a dominant forward effort. Argentina couldn’t score points because they didn’t have the ball and the ABs weren’t giving away kickable penalties.

The backline still struggled a little ball-in-hand against the Argentina rush defence, hence the chip kicks and kick passes. Some of which worked. If only they had thought of that two weeks ago instead of trying to continuously crash it up.

I was shaking my head at the player ratings given by the reporter in Stuff. He obviously doesn’t believe in the “Rising tide lifts all boats” maxim in handing out ratings. All contributed and it was pretty obvious the hot humid conditions played a part in sapping energy.

What a great debut for Will Jordan (I consider his actual debut a false start after being concussed in his first contact). He scored two ‘Crusader tries’ in a dream 5 minutes that effectively sealed the win (and bonus point).

The yellow card after full time was justified and was dumb play.

Penalising Cody Taylor for pushing Pumas player, who was trying to prevent a quick tap by carrying the ball away, proved to me the value of ‘turning the other cheek’ for the majority of the game. The ref was obviously itching for the ABs to retaliate to the Puma’s constant niggle so he could blow the whistle. Shame he didn’t police them in a similar manner, particularly their No’s 6&7.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2612587 29-Nov-2020 10:56

Well that was a considerably better performance. This was the AB's forwards NZ expect to see each week. Calm, focused, determined. The Argentines clearly didn't have the same sting in their tackles so it would have been quite an interesting outcome if both teams had been "up" for it. They had long periods of solid defense, but we were so much more physical and smart than 2 weeks ago.

Agree our backs look muddled. We butchered at least 3-4 really good opportunities but overall, we weren't clicking. Akira showed he can be test match material, and was channeling Kaino on Argentinas line in the first half. I was impressed by the fact the AB's didn't allow themselves to be rattled by Argentina's niggle, and this denied them the fuel to fire up in return, which as shown the last 2 weeks has been quite effective in motivating them. The good thing is, we have shown we *can* compete, we aren't a lost cause and we don't need to scrap the entire team and go back to square one. We need to work on our mental game, the coaches need to work out what's up with our backs play. I still think we need to be more physical to compete with teams who can play at the level Argentina did 2 weeks ago. Our on field kicking needs a lot of work, but I am no longer as concerned as I was about our under the high ball skills. They have improved immensely.

Whilst we weren't fantastic this season, we still won the Bledisloe, and Tri Nations (not confirmed, but a bonus point and 90+ point differential required makes it nigh impossible Aus v Arg). I get the feeling Argentina (Coaches) were focused on the following weeks game. It was almost if they knew the AB's were going to be unbeatable.

Hawkes Bay vs Northland was a great final. Hawkes Bay the deserved winners. Folau Fakatava should be looked at hard by the AB's selectors. He has been fantastic all season for the Magpies.

Auckland v Tasman, at least gv27 can't complain the referee was favouring Tasman this time, he tried his absoloute best to let Auckland have it. Havilli was all over the place, but in the end he was instrumental. Tasman were incredibly erratic it was most frustrating.

Overall, I think NZ wide backs attack looks "off", we have moments of brilliance, but mostly it's not amazing compared to a couple of seasons ago. We have a real issue at half back. I think we have loosies which need work but can probably get it done. Our props look a bit of a problem, locks as well.

BlinkyBill

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#2612631 29-Nov-2020 12:24

I think they need to find a place for Will Jordan. I don’t know what Beaudin’s availability is next year, but if he’s available I would play him at 10 and Jordan at 15, B is looking a bit under-employed at 15 and Richie is a bit patchy at 10.

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#2612658 29-Nov-2020 14:32

Actually one other thing that hasn't improved much, if at all for NZ Rugby, is our passing. *So* many passes are too high, too low, and it slows our momentum. When we get fast ball from the ruck, into the hands of players who are catching the ball slightly in front of them, we are making the gain line and putting defenses under pressure. The problem is, we do it so rarely. It's almost never that a pass will reach a winger, without some form of slow down in the movement whilst a player or multiple players compensate for an average to downright rubbish pass.

One thing that is common when I watch other countries play, and it was especially noticeable at the RWC, where the majority of other teams definately didn't have the same issues with pass continuity.

One day I should sit down and watch a game and count passes. Would be kinda interesting to see what percentage of our passes break momentum.

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#2613046 30-Nov-2020 09:17

Hamish Bidwell's rant on morning report this morning sounded a lot like Trumps ranting in his Fox interview yesterday. He sounded almost unhinged. He used to write insightful balanced reports. He seems angry and upset at everyone. Him raving about the AB's having not played quality opponents this year, as if that was something the AB's had any say in, was just silly.

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