Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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838 posts

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#2647055 4-Feb-2021 13:36

Looking at Blues squad and what Barrett wants to do he will get game time at wing (probably replace Telea) and Fullback.

If I was in charge of a Super squad I would be trying to get the next great halfback rather than an outside back.

Actually a 1st five also. The depth there is quite weak also.

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#2648002 5-Feb-2021 01:00

Jas777:

Looking at Blues squad and what Barrett wants to do he will get game time at wing (probably replace Telea) and Fullback.

If I was in charge of a Super squad I would be trying to get the next great halfback rather than an outside back.

Actually a 1st five also. The depth there is quite weak also.

So where are you getting these players from?

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#2648003 5-Feb-2021 01:04

Grunta47:

Radradra played Union and was a Fiji U20 and 7s player before going to league.....so its fair to say he was a Union player who's had a stint in League. Regardless, he's a great player in both codes.

I think RTS should go okay, but going to Auckland will be his biggest problem. Blues have a fairly decent backline so who would he bump out. They also have poor development as has been witnessed by the number of players who leave and become AB's, or the other high profile League players who have failed there.

NZRugby would have no problem with him coming across as it would be a great coup, pick up interest and possibly new fans. His salary at the Blues would be offset by the massive amount of marketing they could do.

Caleb Clarke, Reiko Ioane and Mark Telea are poorly developed? Matt Duffie has gone from being a solid league player to a solid union player. The Blues have a pretty decent record of developing players, particularly in the outside backs.

I'm curious who the players are who have left and become All Blacks. Their recruitment and talent ID have left a fair bit to be desired but their development has been fairly solid.

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#2648016 5-Feb-2021 08:49

Nahalo, Fekitoa are two off the top of my head (though neither made great AB's in my opinion). There are others too.

Jas777

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Ultimate Geek

#2648055 5-Feb-2021 10:30

Handle9:

Jas777:

Looking at Blues squad and what Barrett wants to do he will get game time at wing (probably replace Telea) and Fullback.

If I was in charge of a Super squad I would be trying to get the next great halfback rather than an outside back.

Actually a 1st five also. The depth there is quite weak also.

So where are you getting these players from?

I was meaning the other 4 teams. All of them are light in both or either position. Crusaders is a classic example, their backup 1st fives are not that good.

But I take your point about where to get them from.

One thing the squads could do is to not fix in so many players at such a young age. Seems to me that potential good players are overlooked because someone has been tracked since 16 years old and almost has to be picked.

Grunta47

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Master Geek

#2648085 5-Feb-2021 12:01

Handle9:

Caleb Clarke, Reiko Ioane and Mark Telea are poorly developed? Matt Duffie has gone from being a solid league player to a solid union player. The Blues have a pretty decent record of developing players, particularly in the outside backs.

I'm curious who the players are who have left and become All Blacks. Their recruitment and talent ID have left a fair bit to be desired but their development has been fairly solid.

So, you've cherry picked my comment as I did say 'Blues have a fairly decent backline so who would he bump out'.

Some players who have left the Auckland area and improved are Eteni Nanai Seturo (went to league I know, but was the top 1st15 player of his time and the Blues did not do enough to keep him), Bryn Hall, Ben Lam, Isaia Toeava, Gareth Anscombe and of course Benji Marshall (who was a good player, but just got shifted around in the backline). Even Caleb Ralph left the Blues to become a better player at the Crusaders.

When you have an ex Blues players in John Kirwan on Rugby shows talking about this issue then this is obviously well known. Even NZ Rugby had concerns around how Auckland hasn't been developing players as it should do, what with the largest catchment in NZ.

The Blues have only finished in the top 10 once since 2012, with their last semi appearance in 2011. Im ignoring last year, as that was a huge up and down, however they have shown great improvement over the last couple of seasons......perhaps because of better recruiting/coaching?

I do think the Blues have turned the corner. Caleb and Reiko are great players and have probably been helped by Beauden moving there. Talea looks good and likewise regarding BB, but Duffie is solid at best and couldn't cement himself a starting position so I wouldnt use him as a success story of the Blues development program.

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#2648444 5-Feb-2021 21:28

The players being referred to are all from a number of years ago. Since Dalton left the Blues have steadily built quite a reasonable player development pathway. Their outside backs and loose forwards are superb. For example Alex Hodgman has gone from being totally mediocre at the Crusaders to an All Black. Is that a sign that the Crusaders player development is poor or just that different setups suit different players?

It's easy to say their player development sucks when that's not the case anymore. They are slowly building a sustainable franchise instead of the mess they had historically.

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Jas777

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#2648466 5-Feb-2021 23:40

Handle9: The players being referred to are all from a number of years ago. Since Dalton left the Blues have steadily built quite a reasonable player development pathway. Their outside backs and loose forwards are superb. For example Alex Hodgman has gone from being totally mediocre at the Crusaders to an All Black. Is that a sign that the Crusaders player development is poor or just that different setups suit different players?

It's easy to say their player development sucks when that's not the case anymore. They are slowly building a sustainable franchise instead of the mess they had historically.

He had Moody and Crockett in front of him and the guy who was an All Black but retired with a bad neck I think.

Just my opinion but a few years ago (5 or so) I thought the way the teams played in the schools' competition in Auckland didn't actually suit the way Rugby is being played and a lot of the players who went into the Blues didn't make it because of this.

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#2650424 9-Feb-2021 15:21

I enjoyed Scotland getting up over England in the weekend. Scotland did well to capitalize on a pretty average English effort, something they wouldn't have always done.

Pivac has got to be feeling the pressure, even with Ireland down a player for most of the game, they only squeaked by 5 points, and had they not have kicked the ball out on the full, Ireland very well could have drawn or won that game. Pivac mentioned being relieved, and I bet that's the truth. I wonder if he would have survived long if they had lost?

France looks really good, pity they are so mercurial.

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#2650851 10-Feb-2021 10:24

https://www.superrugby.co.nz/news/goal-line-drop-out-captains-referral-to-feature-in-sky-super-rugby-aotearoa/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTkdJd05qUTFOelZoTURkaSIsInQiOiJkeXQzTFZlOEU3WlI5STZ3ME5SY2ZQR2RpSkNaZ0h0SVVxeFlMMm00SDk1bmJlVVdvMzZUdHZlVG1VUXYyRk84XC9zU1wvWHNiaURqNWZZNGFta3RHU3VQMU1BM1wvVnc0OFo1N0grUGJjK3pveDZXRnc4K2I3U3dTdTFiRjcxb1JTdSJ9

Not sure I am a fan of the Captains referral. I guess let's see if the impact is positive or not. More rules in a game that already has a million rules and is hard to referee.

Jas777

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Ultimate Geek

#2650892 10-Feb-2021 10:52

The way it is going I can see the last 5 minutes of a rugby game being like the NFL and taking 15 minutes.

The only good thing coming out of it would be less time for some of the inane after match stuff they produce.

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#2650897 10-Feb-2021 11:03

Jas777:

The way it is going I can see the last 5 minutes of a rugby game being like the NFL and taking 15 minutes.

The only good thing coming out of it would be less time for some of the inane after match stuff they produce.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself. They have spent a lot of time trying to increase the ball in play time in matches, and this seems a step backward. It may work well, but my initial impressions aren't positive.

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#2656439 15-Feb-2021 07:20

A other fun weekend of Six Nations. Dupont didn't have his best game for France but was still mesmerising. He is the best player in the world at the moment and it's not really close. Watching him at the moment is a little like watching Carter emerge in the mid 2000s. He's just go so much time and is always in the right place.

France are going to be incredibly hard to beat in 2023. They have so much depth and the Galthie / Edwards coaching team has them really playing well. If Galthie doesn't burn them out by being a complete bastard they really do have what it takes to be great. Playing at home will be great for them. I'm really hoping to get tickets for the opening game of the 2023 world cup, it could be very special.

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#2657981 17-Feb-2021 06:24

Tough news for France with Fabien Galthie and one other staff member testing positive. This puts next weeks game against Scotland in doubt.

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#2659303 19-Feb-2021 02:51

This (paywalled) article about head safety on the xv was very good.

There are plenty more twists to come in this tale, but there is a real danger rugby comes to think this problem can be solved, or even just alleviated modestly, by recourse to the referee’s pocket. If there is ever to be a way out of this crisis, it will be through the science of biomarkers and maybe even treatment for brain injury; it will be through foundations like those recently set up by and for the players like Head for Change or the lobbying group created this week called Progressive Rugby; it will be through improved management and care.There are plenty more twists to come in this tale, but there is a real danger rugby comes to think this problem can be solved, or even just alleviated modestly, by recourse to the referee’s pocket. If there is ever to be a way out of this crisis, it will be through the science of biomarkers and maybe even treatment for brain injury; it will be through foundations like those recently set up by and for the players like Head for Change or the lobbying group created this week called Progressive Rugby; it will be through improved management and care.

Last on the list, and caveated with a whopping ‘maybe’, is law change. That maybe is because the only surefire way to fix this, which is to ban tackling altogether, would be to turn rugby into something else. We shall see if rugby’s administrators are able to solve the almost-impossible conundrum of that other weary cliché, to make the game safer without losing any of the elements that make it rugby, but to date their on-field measures have stretched to wishing more red cards on their own players. And then, to add insult to injustice, banning them as well. Which means rugby’s administrators have chosen to blame the players, when anybody can see the problem is the sport itself.

This is a craven betrayal of good people. Don’t let anyone tell you they have made law changes to address rugby’s problems. The law remains exactly the same; they’ve just whacked up the punishments. We are four years in, and still the red cards keep coming.

Red cards are supposed to serve as a deterrent, which means they should peter out once the message is absorbed. If that is so, they are not working. Invariably the assessment of commentator and fan alike after each one is that there was no intent. If there is no intent there should be no red card, at least in any sport that treats its players with respect.

The options available to a player when confronted by someone jackaling for the ball are becoming increasingly limited. The hypocrisy in rugby means we demand players are committed to the ferocity of the onslaught but expect them to remain immaculate in their decision-making. Zander Fagerson should have overridden the instinct to charge at Wyn Jones last Saturday, but his alternatives were to do nothing or to amble up to Jones in a decidedly uncommitted fashion and explore his person for a safe area on which to bind. By which time the ball would have gone and Fagerson would have likely been pilloried for, well, a lack of commitment.

But we’re getting away from the point. If rugby thinks red cards can absolve the sport of its responsibilities, it totally misunderstands the gravity of the problem. The red card has become fetishised by all too many as some kind of magic wand that will make brain injury and all its repercussions go away. This is a dangerous illusion.

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