Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2684900 31-Mar-2021 16:57

JPNZ:
Handle9: Who are the coaches to come out of the Canterbury system in the last 10 years who have had success away from Canterbury?

Their performance ranges from mediocre to toxic.

Who have coached Canterbury/Crusaders and gone onto other things?

Vern Cotter - Crusaders now with Scotland

Todd Blackadder - Crusaders now head of rugby at Bath

Brad Mooar - Crusaders now assistant All Blacks coach

Leon McDonald - Played Crusaders - Blues Coach

Not to mention Robbie Deans, Wayne Smith, Steve Hansen or mark Hammett who all coached the Crusaders

Don't you mean Hammett - fired twice leaving massive messes
Blackadder - fired at Bath
Mauger - fired from the Highlanders and Lecester
Penney - fired from NSW

It's not a great track record in the last 10 years.

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#2685615 1-Apr-2021 22:29

Sam Cane gone for the SR season at least with a Pectoral injury. That's horrible news for him and the Chiefs.

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#2685811 2-Apr-2021 18:41

Could be nothing, not a huge amount of information, but I hope NZR and the Highlanders are paying attention to the potential warning signs around Josh Ioane's repeated incidents involving alcohol. They and the Crusaders didn't recognise the warning signs around Zac Guilford until it was too late.

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#2685883 2-Apr-2021 22:01

That was hard to watch. Congrats Highlanders being able to pressure the Crusaders into what seemed like countless errors and mistakes. They didn't cope with the slippery conditions and the Highlanders did much better. Highlanders defence was great. Crusaders didn't pull it together which is most uncharacteric of them.

Handle9

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#2685925 3-Apr-2021 07:39

What on earth was Joe Wheeler trying to do with his ridiculous sideline question? He and Dagg aren't funny with their "comedy" bits but that sort of outright racist nonsense went out in the 80s.

Dingbatt

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#2685927 3-Apr-2021 08:14

Everything that went wrong for the Highlanders the week before against the Hurricanes, went right last night against the Crusaders. Passes stuck, turn-overs reduced and all round errors were minimised. And the Crusaders high penalty count was punished.

Yes conditions were ‘a bit slippy’ but both teams were playing on the same field. Mitch Hunt had a night to remember and Ioane will have to fight for the number 10 jersey when his timeout on the stairs is over.

How many kickable penalties did the Crusaders forego in favour of a kick to the corner? The points difference at the end of the extended first half was 3 Hunt penalty goals. The same team culture and self belief that makes the Crusaders champions means they have to score the rolling maul tries instead. The Blues were guilty of the same in their loss to the Chiefs the week before.

I didn’t see any howlers by the officials. I do think that maybe there was a knock on prior to the Crusaders second try, the one Smith used the (unsuccessful) captain’s referral for. The officials looked at Brin Hall’s handling of the ball, however I believe the ball was knocked on in the ruck before it was moved back to Hall. But the camera angle that showed that was only played once. I might have to revisit it before I delete the game off the MySky.

The game tonight between the Blues and Hurricanes now has new significance in the competition. I hope it lives up to it.

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#2685936 3-Apr-2021 09:05

Dingbatt:
I didn’t see any howlers by the officials.

Apart from the two yellow cards that should have been given.

The first was Jordan tackling the player in the air in the first two minutes of the game. The player in the air landed dangerously. Red card but could have been mitigated to yellow for the obstruction earlier which impeded Jordans run, but he still intentionally tackled the player in the air following the instruction.

Second Havili slapping the ball away while lying in the ruck while the Highlanders were on attack.

Both these types of offence are regularly dealt with as yellow card offences but not last night. The Jordan one could have been red and there wouldn't have been much in the way of an argument, but it would have been fair as a yellow. Frankly that conversation between the ref and the TMO over the Jordan tackle in the air was embarrassing and they should both be sitting a week or two or while they get some training.

The big names went missing last night when the pressure went on. The Highlanders have given the blueprint of how to beat the Crusaders and it's a lot about ticker.

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#2685938 3-Apr-2021 09:07

Dingbatt:

Everything that went wrong for the Highlanders the week before against the Hurricanes, went right last night against the Crusaders. Passes stuck, turn-overs reduced and all round errors were minimised. And the Crusaders high penalty count was punished.

Yes conditions were ‘a bit slippy’ but both teams were playing on the same field. Mitch Hunt had a night to remember and Ioane will have to fight for the number 10 jersey when his timeout on the stairs is over.

How many kickable penalties did the Crusaders forego in favour of a kick to the corner? The points difference at the end of the extended first half was 3 Hunt penalty goals. The same team culture and self belief that makes the Crusaders champions means they have to score the rolling maul tries instead. The Blues were guilty of the same in their loss to the Chiefs the week before.

I didn’t see any howlers by the officials. I do think that maybe there was a knock on prior to the Crusaders second try, the one Smith used the (unsuccessful) captain’s referral for. The officials looked at Brin Hall’s handling of the ball, however I believe the ball was knocked on in the ruck before it was moved back to Hall. But the camera angle that showed that was only played once. I might have to revisit it before I delete the game off the MySky.

The game tonight between the Blues and Hurricanes now has new significance in the competition. I hope it lives up to it.

Yeah both teams were in the same conditions, the Crusaders weren't handling them as well. I can't recall a more error ridden, or less cohesive performance. The last pass wouldn't stick, ball was lost in contact, passes pushed instead of contact taken, it was hard to watch. they weren't massively off, but it shows the percentages in the plays.

Having said that, until the last 20 minutes or so, were you thinking in your mind, shortly it's going to click, and the Crusaders will probably still squeak a win here? They were probably guilty of not identifying earlier that what they had planned wasn't going to work and changing the mindset.

Credit to the Highlanders for doing what most people would have said they couldn't do.

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#2685940 3-Apr-2021 09:26

@tukapa1 Okay. I must admit the portion of the game with the tackle in the air was watched at the airport so there was no sound.

But the precedent for both your examples has been set in previous weeks, with dangerous foul play and professional fouls being minimally punished.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2685942 3-Apr-2021 09:31

No chance that was going to be Red. There were plenty of mitigating circumstances, including the fact the player collided with his own team-mate. Without the obstruction, the situation likely changes significantly. Might have been a yellow, but could have been a penalty, or perhaps even with a collision Jordan gets him on the ground safely (less likely but not impossible). Jordan shouldn't have reached around after the obstruction and touched the player in the air.

I don't see the Crusaders panicking after last night. Plenty of doomsayers predicting an entirely different end to the competition, but I suspect they will treat it seriously, but I doubt wholesale changes will occur. There will be some good learnings. I suspect they made have been guilty of underestimating what they felt was an undercooked side in the Highlanders with 6 players out.

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#2685944 3-Apr-2021 09:48

I was going to say the Warratahs defensive line model is a sieve, but someone else said they were taking their social distancing responsibilities too seriously :)

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#2686109 3-Apr-2021 21:14

Ugh, well that wasn't great to watch either. Handling errors and poor decision making has been rampant this weekend.

Can someone explain to me the penalty against Kerifi (I think) for scooping the ball backward? As far as I could see the turn over was legal, and he was on his feet? Also, why was Ardie Savea carded? How was that yellow? He came through the maul legally as best I can see?

Handle9

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#2686181 4-Apr-2021 00:54

Kirifis one was touch and go but it did look like his weight was on his right hand.

Savea was a clear yellow. He wasn't supporting his weight - he lost his feet and wasn't taking the weight of the maul which collapsed it. He can't get off his feet in that situation.

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#2686248 4-Apr-2021 10:19

Got to say performances by crusaders , blues and hurricanes were poor. Probably 3 of the most error ridden performances seen in 3 to 4 years.

Some of back play was woeful.

Someone in the crusaders should have realised the backs wetr terrible and said kick for the corner and go for lineout drives or power scrums.

Still think the final will be the crusaders v blues. The interesting thing about it if it happens is will be a night game after both match ups in round robin are day games

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#2686288 4-Apr-2021 12:09

Handle9: Kirifis one was touch and go but it did look like his weight was on his right hand.

Savea was a clear yellow. He wasn't supporting his weight - he lost his feet and wasn't taking the weight of the maul which collapsed it. He can't get off his feet in that situation.

As a neutral observer I respectfully disagree.

Kirifi had already dislodged the ball with his right hand and then flicked it back with his left, so surely the ruck is over? The Blues player could have just as easily been penalised for wrapping his arms around the ball rather than placing it, thereby preventing Kirifi from getting the ball.

Savea didn’t collapse the maul, he was pulled down by a Blues player, in fact he landed on him. He had his hands on the ball while still supporting his body weight.

I think the assistant referee was wrong on both counts. I’ve wiped the recording now, but did the officials refer the penalty try and second yellow to the TMO?

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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