Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

Forums › Sports › Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

1 | ... | 405 | 406 | 407 | 408 | 409 | 410 | 411 | 412 | 413 | 414 | 415 | ... | 640

6741 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2700654 2-May-2021 10:41

Well the Blues must feel pretty embarrassed about their performance against what was essentially a Chiefs development squad. The final score flattered them but up until the 65th minute the game was in the balance. Certainly as a Chiefs supporter I feel good about their future with the young talent on display.

Not happy with some of the officiating, but that’s nothing new.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Mighty Ape

Shop now on Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

Handle9

11241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2700905 3-May-2021 06:24

I watched the last 30 minutes of the La Rochelle Leinster Heineken cup quarter final. It was fun to see Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr Barlow, James Lowe and Ihaia West playing.

Vito and TKB are still class.

GV27

5882 posts

Uber Geek

#2700915 3-May-2021 08:28

Dingbatt:

Well the Blues must feel pretty embarrassed about their performance against what was essentially a Chiefs development squad. The final score flattered them but up until the 65th minute the game was in the balance. Certainly as a Chiefs supporter I feel good about their future with the young talent on display.

Not happy with some of the officiating, but that’s nothing new.

The captain's challenge was interesting. Yes, the thing the Blues specifically asked to review was fine, but the offside was so obvious in real time that it should never have been missed - and definitely should have been seen by a ref/linesman and referred by them. Absurd that it even had to be a captain's challenge in the first place.

I feel there were also a few questionably high shots from the Chiefs that were just let go, but the Blues also got away with very poor (at best, at worst plain dirty) clearouts of players leading with a shoulder. Will take the W for sure, but that could have easily been a 13 man game for the Blues had the officials not missed a lot of contact off the ball.

Their discipline issues throughout the season never really went away, and it's a big reason they're not in the finals. Given their recent seasons, I feel like this Blues team just didn't really progress at all this year. Will be interesting to see how they go against the Australian sides, it might be a bit of a mental reset for some of the non-international payers.

Dingbatt

6741 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2700927 3-May-2021 09:08

GV27:

Dingbatt:

Well the Blues must feel pretty embarrassed about their performance against what was essentially a Chiefs development squad. The final score flattered them but up until the 65th minute the game was in the balance. Certainly as a Chiefs supporter I feel good about their future with the young talent on display.

Not happy with some of the officiating, but that’s nothing new.

The captain's challenge was interesting. Yes, the thing the Blues specifically asked to review was fine, but the offside was so obvious in real time that it should never have been missed - and definitely should have been seen by a ref/linesman and referred by them. Absurd that it even had to be a captain's challenge in the first place.

Except for the point that the ball wasn’t lost forward (according to the TMO - I have seen balls that were further backwards ruled as ‘forward’ this year) so the retiring player has the right to pick up the ball, doesn’t he? So not offside.

The Chiefs first disallowed try should have resulted in a penalty to the Chiefs for the high shot on the tackled player. It was every bit as bad (if not worse) than the one Gatland got penalised for about 5 minutes prior.

In general, I don’t think the defending team should be rewarded for “Held up over the tryline” with a goal line drop out. I believe a 5 metre scrum is fairer on the attacking team. But then, I hate the whole concept of the rolling maul as well. It is a Northern Hemisphere construct to skew the game towards their (supposed) forward strength.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

GV27

5882 posts

Uber Geek

#2701072 3-May-2021 11:37

Dingbatt:

Except for the point that the ball wasn’t lost forward (according to the TMO - I have seen balls that were further backwards ruled as ‘forward’ this year) so the retiring player has the right to pick up the ball, doesn’t he? So not offside.

Doesn't matter, you can't be ahead of another player who has touched the ball and then pick it up - doesn't matter which way the ball is travelling, a player ahead of another player can't pick it up. If you spiked it into the ground behind you and it bounced forward and a player in front of you caught it, it would be an obvious offside. Losing the ball 'backwards' for the point of a lost-foward ruling shouldn't change the basics of an offside.

networkn

Networkn
32236 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2701079 3-May-2021 12:02

Handle9: I watched the last 30 minutes of the La Rochelle Leinster Heineken cup quarter final. It was fun to see Victor Vito, Tawera Kerr Barlow, James Lowe and Ihaia West playing.

Vito and TKB are still class.

Vito must almost be out there with a walker by now!

The Chiefs have had a fair few AB's Half backs now.

Dingbatt

6741 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2701096 3-May-2021 12:22

GV27:

Dingbatt:

Except for the point that the ball wasn’t lost forward (according to the TMO - I have seen balls that were further backwards ruled as ‘forward’ this year) so the retiring player has the right to pick up the ball, doesn’t he? So not offside.

Doesn't matter, you can't be ahead of another player who has touched the ball and then pick it up - doesn't matter which way the ball is travelling, a player ahead of another player can't pick it up. If you spiked it into the ground behind you and it bounced forward and a player in front of you caught it, it would be an obvious offside. Losing the ball 'backwards' for the point of a lost-foward ruling shouldn't change the basics of an offside.

Sorry to argue physics, but if you pick up a ball that hasn’t travelled forward (according to the TMO) then the act of picking up the ball proves you are onside.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

networkn

Networkn
32236 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2701748 4-May-2021 15:37

Michael Chieka on the breakdown was an interesting watch. His concession he needed to take time away to improve, get better, do things differently, seemed pretty genuine. I guess not entirely surprisingly he wants another head coaching position. I watched some of the games where he was assisting Argentina and he was stiill doing the same stuff throwing things etc, he really needs to find a way to check his emotions to get better. I think time in the assistants box will help him more than another head coaching role personally.

Some people are more emotional and expressive than others. I don't neccessarily think it's always a bad thing, but anything that makes you consistently look like you are a bad sport or not coping, which in turn stops you being able to self analyse, is a bad thing. His lack of ability to accept others perspective on coaching, just because he was the head coach, was probably his downfall. From most accounts, I think players loved playing for him, felt they developed well under him, but consistently his selections and tactics were questionable. I think that is why RA tried to get a team similar to the format the AB's use with an external selector implemented. His resistance to that was a big part of his downfall.

GV27

5882 posts

Uber Geek

#2701767 4-May-2021 15:56

Dingbatt:

Sorry to argue physics, but if you pick up a ball that hasn’t travelled forward (according to the TMO) then the act of picking up the ball proves you are onside.

Not if you are ahead of a player when he touches it. The notion of a lost forward is dynamic, but the question of whether one player is in front of another is not.

Handle9

11241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2701991 5-May-2021 04:49

networkn:
Michael Chieka on the breakdown was an interesting watch. His concession he needed to take time away to improve, get better, do things differently, seemed pretty genuine. I guess not entirely surprisingly he wants another head coaching position. I watched some of the games where he was assisting Argentina and he was stiill doing the same stuff throwing things etc, he really needs to find a way to check his emotions to get better. I think time in the assistants box will help him more than another head coaching role personally.

Some people are more emotional and expressive than others. I don't neccessarily think it's always a bad thing, but anything that makes you consistently look like you are a bad sport or not coping, which in turn stops you being able to self analyse, is a bad thing. His lack of ability to accept others perspective on coaching, just because he was the head coach, was probably his downfall. From most accounts, I think players loved playing for him, felt they developed well under him, but consistently his selections and tactics were questionable. I think that is why RA tried to get a team similar to the format the AB's use with an external selector implemented. His resistance to that was a big part of his downfall.

Chieka is a good man. Players love him and I can see why. He'd be a great tournament coach.

His weakness is the same as Dean's - stakeholder management. The emotional stuff during games is a smokescreen. Australian rugby is all about stakeholder management. It's very political and you have to manage the states as well as the ARU. Cheika and Deans both have a seige mentality which didn't work. The coaches who have been successful in that environment are very good communicators. Dean's and Cheika weren't that.

Grunta47

94 posts

Master Geek

#2702052 5-May-2021 08:19

GV27:

Not if you are ahead of a player when he touches it. The notion of a lost forward is dynamic, but the question of whether one player is in front of another is not.

Player A is carrying the ball with player B slightly in front/offside

Player A loses the ball backwards

Player B turns around and goes back to pick up the ball. By this act alone they have returned back onside by going past the point where A lost the ball.

However, ref's look at the way you pick up the ball.

1 - If B runs back and picks up the ball while facing their try line then they are considered offside.

2 - If B had run past the ball, turned and picked it up facing the the opponents goal line then they are considered onside.

The simple act of running past player A puts you back onside, so you should be able to pick up the ball facing your own try line. This is no different to a player kicking and running forward to put his players onside. Option 1 is just reffed wrong.....in my humble opinion.

networkn

Networkn
32236 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2702071 5-May-2021 09:09

Handle9:

His weakness is the same as Dean's - stakeholder management. The emotional stuff during games is a smokescreen. Australian rugby is all about stakeholder management. It's very political and you have to manage the states as well as the ARU. Cheika and Deans both have a seige mentality which didn't work. The coaches who have been successful in that environment are very good communicators. Dean's and Cheika weren't that.

You might be right about Stakeholder Management (Ewen McKenzie was also not successful in his tenure), but I disagree about the smokescreen. Someone always blaming others, is rarely looking at the other reasons for failure. His comments about having always been the boss was probably also fairly telling I thought. He was far too defensive to criticism, which isn't even an uncommon trait, but it doesn't allow for a great deal of learning or development. By the end of his tenure with the Wallabies he had all but lost the plot.

Handle9

11241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2702512 5-May-2021 18:55

networkn:

Handle9:

His weakness is the same as Dean's - stakeholder management. The emotional stuff during games is a smokescreen. Australian rugby is all about stakeholder management. It's very political and you have to manage the states as well as the ARU. Cheika and Deans both have a seige mentality which didn't work. The coaches who have been successful in that environment are very good communicators. Dean's and Cheika weren't that.

You might be right about Stakeholder Management (Ewen McKenzie was also not successful in his tenure), but I disagree about the smokescreen. Someone always blaming others, is rarely looking at the other reasons for failure. His comments about having always been the boss was probably also fairly telling I thought. He was far too defensive to criticism, which isn't even an uncommon trait, but it doesn't allow for a great deal of learning or development. By the end of his tenure with the Wallabies he had all but lost the plot.

There are many many successful coaches who are incredibly emotional. Craig Bellamy and Ricky Stuart are super successful despite being incredibly volatile. Similarly guys like Mourniho are powder kegs but they have huge amounts of success.

It's who he is and he's been extremely successful at many levels. He'd be fake if he toned it down much and teams don't succeed with plastic leaders.

tukapa1

724 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2703765 8-May-2021 21:17

Well that was disappointing.

Crusaders cheated a lot of the night and got away with it. That tackle of Taylor was red on past rules but it was clear the officials didn't want to ruin the game tonight.

Penalties 13 Crusaders to 4 Chiefs with 20 minutes to play shows the negative nature they played the game in.

The Chiefs had their chances to win that regardless of the negativity. Champions tend to get the rub of the green and that continued tonight.

@Networkn - will be interesting to see how you respond to the thuggery and negativity given your consistent commentary on that sort of play over the years.

Disclaimer - I support the Hurricanes and anyone playing the Crusaders.

Handle9

11241 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2703766 8-May-2021 21:20

Yip. Super cynical and blatant cheating.

Reece and Havili came off as a massive dicks at the end. How Reece didn't get a red card is beyond me. Clear head contact with force.

1 | ... | 405 | 406 | 407 | 408 | 409 | 410 | 411 | 412 | 413 | 414 | 415 | ... | 640