Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2703770 8-May-2021 21:48

Isn't it great, you can now make contact with the head of a player diving for the line and no one even mentions the words "penalty try" when contemplating your offence.

Equating an accidental head-high in general play in the middle of the field to one where the player has no one else between them and the try line is garbage. One is clearly more inflammatory than the other.

As for Reece, he started low, lead with the shoulder and was only ever going to make contact with the head. How that could be treated the same as Cody Taylor's reckless air charge on Mackenzie is beyond me.

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Handle9

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#2703785 9-May-2021 01:11

GV27:

Isn't it great, you can now make contact with the head of a player diving for the line and no one even mentions the words "penalty try" when contemplating your offence.

Equating an accidental head-high in general play in the middle of the field to one where the player has no one else between them and the try line is garbage. One is clearly more inflammatory than the other.

As for Reece, he started low, lead with the shoulder and was only ever going to make contact with the head. How that could be treated the same as Cody Taylor's reckless air charge on Mackenzie is beyond me.

It's exactly the same tackle Ofa Tuungafasi got sent off for last year, just from a smaller man.

This stuff annoys me where the offense isn't what is penalised regardless of who makes the tackle it should be treated the same. Players getting hit in the air is the same. No one has any clue what will happen if you hit someone in the air but if he lands on his head it's red, on his shoulder it's yellow. It should either always be red or always yellow. The player making the tackle has no clue what it will end up like.

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#2703844 9-May-2021 10:56

Must admit as a Hurricanes supporter that the Chiefs were hard done by last night with every foul play act by the Crusaders impacting the game severely and definitely underpunished. Not sure how they got off so lightly but the Chiefs also failed to capitalise when the Crusaders were down to 13.

GV27

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#2703971 9-May-2021 12:50

Thinking about it again, it was pretty lucky that Mackenzie's boot cost them the game, otherwise there'd be serious questions asked about those foul play calls. It wouldn't have been a good look if the end result was decided by some of those head-scratchers, given how officials have previously scrambled when the Crusaders have questioned game-changing calls.

Handle9

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#2704112 9-May-2021 18:28

The better team won, the Crusaders pack was far more consistent. The cynical play leaves a bad taste as they have form. It's hardly a one off. Yesterday was particularly distasteful as it was so clearly cynical and planned. Anytime the chiefs got ball in a decent position there was a penalty in the ruck.

GV27

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#2704233 10-May-2021 07:50

Handle9:

Anytime the chiefs got ball in a decent position there was a penalty in the ruck.

Actually that's a good point, there was no card for repeated infringements, just for dangerous/professional fouls. I think both teams got a warning too.

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#2705293 10-May-2021 11:04

Wow, a page of complaining and not a single congratulations. We really must be NZ fans! I thought I was on Reddit for a while. At least on Reddit, most people had the class to concede that the better team won on the night and congratulate the winners before raising any concerns they had.

What has been failed to be mentioned:

1) The Chiefs lineout was awful. Overall their set-piece was not functioning well.

2) MacKenzies game management, tactical and tee kicking were poor. How many times did the Chiefs kick away possession when they showed they were doing well with ball in hand? (9 Points minimum were left on the field due to missed kicks).

3) Bryn Gatland was pulled despite him showing superior game management and kicking. IMO a poor choice by the coaches.

4) The Chiefs scrum had no ascendency, even when the Crusaders were down to 7 in the scrum.

5) The Chiefs were unable to take advantage of a 2 man advantage, and the Crusaders actually changed modes during that time and changed the momentum of the game, thanks largely to some big plays by Richie Mo'unga.

6) The Chiefs were *also* on a warning for their high tackles earlier in the game.

7) The last 20 minutes the Chiefs weren't really in the game. They lost their shape and direction. This was a pattern that the Chiefs that lost 11 in a row, repeated, being unable to compete for 80 minutes. They absolutely could have won that match.

Despite all of that, the game was in the balance for 65 minutes. The Chiefs showed a lot of determination and some innovation. I think Clayton McMillan did a great job with the Chiefs this year. It is some turn around 11 losses in a row, to a final. It will be interesting to see what happens next year when Gatland returns. I don't really think he is a compatible coach for the type of Rugby the Chiefs play, personally, but he may still be successful. The return of Retallick will really help the Chiefs I think.

@tukapa1 I have been *very* vocal about the Crusaders discipline for a few years now, along with the All Blacks. It's something they obviously don't consider a problem given it's been consistently poor for quite a while. It's probably my only criticism of Scott Robertson as a coach, as I think we should be able to win and have good discipline. It's very frustrating for me as a Crusaders fan.

I didn't consider any of the cards given in the final, intentional thuggery. Taylor got it wrong, he was apologetic, he was punished. The consensus online I have seen around Reeces tackle despite Pickeralls insistence it was headfirst and is inline with my own viewing of it, contact was primarily with the chest and rode up. The Chiefs benefited from the referee's inclination to give the benefit of the doubt in tackles as well.

What I do find interesting was the silence when for 3 seasons the Chiefs were consistently the least disciplined team in the competition, were constantly cynical, and yellow cards were very common. They had a habit of trying to win by trying to get under the skin of their opponents. If the Crusaders do it though....

For the record, I don't think it should be part of Rugby regardless of the team.

Also, and I have mentioned *this* many times, booing in a game, especially kickers, is total BS. It's disappointing as a fan to see other fans do it, but be clear, this is not only a Crusaders fan issue, the Chiefs do it with their Bells, and there was booing and bells during the kicking in the Chiefs Hurricanes game.

We really need to grow up as fans, it gives us a bad reputation.

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#2705425 10-May-2021 12:11

The AU final was as boring as anything for 75 minutes and then was a real nailbiter for the next 13! Brumbies were lucky they were only down to 13, could easily have been 12.

I think the right result was reached. How fitting O'Conner scored the match-winning try. It's great to see he has managed to put his past difficulties behind him. I'll be interested to see if he is the Wallabies 10 this year. There seems to be a mixed opinion on whether Rugby in Australia (the play not the attendances etc) are heading in the right direction. I am interested to see how AU/NZ teams fare.

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#2705462 10-May-2021 12:54

I believe that McKenzie was carrying too much of the weight of expectation.
In contrast to previous seasons, the Chiefs ethos was to take the points on offer in the form of penalty kicks. It served them well in the run of close wins that got them to the final, but deserted them as the kicker’s accuracy waned. I believe their on field leadership was lacking at crucial moments. When the Crusaders were down to 13, with a man missing from each of the Crusaders forward pack and the backs defensive line, to take the penalty and then start again in your own 22 was folly. There is every chance that a set piece, either scrum or lineout may have led to a try or even another yellow card for repeated infringements. One media report I read stated “The Crusaders won despite missing key players like Joe Moody”. No mention of the Chiefs being without the All Black Captain. Cane’s leadership on the big occasion may have helped.

Bearing in mind I am biased, I would like to know how Fainga’anuku gets away with leading with his forearm/elbow when fending off a tackle, often contacting the tackler’s upper chest/neck. It was evident multiple times on Saturday night.
I’d also like to know why deliberately knocking the ball over the dead ball line resulted in a 22 rather than a penalty? I heard the ref say “he was attempting to force it” but at no time did he get his hand above the ball. Similarly, if you go for an intercept and produce a deliberate knock on then you get penalised, and possibly yellow carded. Intent doesn’t overrule outcome.

Drummond’s pass to Fainga’nuku in the lead up to Reece’s try was forward (IMO). Maybe a bit early in the game to possibly squander a captain’s challenge. In Jordan’s try, if it hadn’t been scored then I believe the Chiefs would have got penalised for obstruction.

Reece was lucky to get away with a yellow. His initial contact was on the shoulder but his trajectory in the tackle was always upward and it was inevitable that he would make contact with Tiatia’s head. Likewise dangerous play that prevents a try is surely a penalty try and yellow card? Otherwise it’s not a penalty. But then that has gone unpunished multiple times this season.

In the end, the Crusaders played better finals footy. Less overawed by the occasion, with a stronger bench and a couple of Mo’unga Magic Moments.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2705473 10-May-2021 13:01

Dingbatt:

I believe that McKenzie was carrying too much of the weight of expectation.

I agree entirely. He has come a ways, but he is still mercurial, it's a lot of pressure to put on a single player. The Blues are so often guilty of this too.

In contrast to previous seasons, the Chiefs ethos was to take the points on offer in the form of penalty kicks. It served them well in the run of close wins that got them to the final, but deserted them as the kicker’s accuracy waned. I believe their on field leadership was lacking at crucial moments. When the Crusaders were down to 13, with a man missing from each of the Crusaders forward pack and the backs defensive line, to take the penalty and then start again in your own 22 was folly. There is every chance that a set piece, either scrum or lineout may have led to a try or even another yellow card for repeated infringements. One media report I read stated “The Crusaders won despite missing key players like Joe Moody”. No mention of the Chiefs being without the All Black Captain. Cane’s leadership on the big occasion may have helped.

I think you are right about leadership on the field. I was very impressed with McMillans interview after the game, he alluded to the same. I would like to see him continue on as head coach personally.

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#2705474 10-May-2021 13:02

Bearing in mind I am biased, I would like to know how Fainga’anuku gets away with leading with his forearm/elbow when fending off a tackle, often contacting the tackler’s upper chest/neck. It was evident multiple times on Saturday night.

I'm assuming you saw that players on both teams were doing this, and all season long.

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#2705499 10-May-2021 13:35

networkn:

Bearing in mind I am biased, I would like to know how Fainga’anuku gets away with leading with his forearm/elbow when fending off a tackle, often contacting the tackler’s upper chest/neck. It was evident multiple times on Saturday night.

I'm assuming you saw that players on both teams were doing this, and all season long.

Just more noticeable from a powerful and strong running player. Tucking your arm to protect yourself is one thing, but leading with the elbow sent a couple of tacklers reeling. That others do it doesn’t make it acceptable. I apologise for daring to criticise a Crusader though (what was I thinking! ;-))

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Handle9

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#2705515 10-May-2021 14:15

It's pretty funny to hear the crusaders discipline being questioned.

They are extremely disciplined, it just so happens that includes deliberately killing the ball. It's not poor discipline it's cynical cheating.

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#2707080 13-May-2021 16:22

Handle9: It's pretty funny to hear the crusaders discipline being questioned.

They are extremely disciplined, it just so happens that includes deliberately killing the ball. It's not poor discipline it's cynical cheating.

I've watched a lot of commentary about the final, the Crusaders season in general including, interviews and been across the social media, including people who claim to dislike through to hate the Crusaders. You are in the vastest minority calling it cynical cheating (In fact I've not seen a single accusation by another). I think you might need to get that chip on your shoulder looked at.

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#2707081 13-May-2021 16:23

I'll get it looked at when you trade in your eye patch

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