Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2760688 16-Aug-2021 13:13

Handle9:

There are reports out of Australia that RA will revise the Giteau run to allow selection of more overseas players. It would leave NZ as the last man standing in the Southern Hemisphere. It's really only a matter of time until that changes.

A fair bit of discussion around the place it seems, however, I'd agree tentatively that it's of relatively limited benefit. A fairly small number of players that go overseas are of true international test rugby quality, their interest in playing for the AB's after a stint overseas also seems pretty limited, and the impact to Super Rugby, our main feeder to the AB's and one of the reasons for our international success over a long period, potentially ends up pretty big.

I guess we will see what happens, but if ARU thinks that's the magic fix to their woes, then they are dreaming.

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Handle9

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#2760827 16-Aug-2021 17:11

networkn:

Handle9:

There are reports out of Australia that RA will revise the Giteau run to allow selection of more overseas players. It would leave NZ as the last man standing in the Southern Hemisphere. It's really only a matter of time until that changes.

A fair bit of discussion around the place it seems, however, I'd agree tentatively that it's of relatively limited benefit. A fairly small number of players that go overseas are of true international test rugby quality, their interest in playing for the AB's after a stint overseas also seems pretty limited, and the impact to Super Rugby, our main feeder to the AB's and one of the reasons for our international success over a long period, potentially ends up pretty big.

I guess we will see what happens, but if ARU thinks that's the magic fix to their woes, then they are dreaming.

Having access to their best, and most experienced players, will have significant benefit.

The drip drip drip of players to overseas clubs is progressing and will only get greater. There will be more and more players like McKenzie and Perenara choosing to take mid career moves but they will get longer.

NZR is trying to hold back the tide, they don't have the money to compete. It won't happen in 12 months but in 5-10 years there will be significant numbers of All Blacks playing off shore. It's probably for the best, then NZR can focus on trying to grow a grass roots rugby scene that is really struggling.

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#2761368 17-Aug-2021 11:51

Handle9:

I guess I missed the consistent string of good performances. They don't exist.

Can you just reply like a normal person having a discussion?

If that is the measure of good coaching, and the only allowed measure, then I'm afraid most of the tier one coaches could be facing the axe. NZ has the best overall win rate of any tier one country. Most other teams have had their wobbles and a fair amount of inconsistency too.

For the longest time, we had a unicorn team, players who were consistently the best in their positions with lots of experience, long established combinations and the resulting mental fortitude. Continuity was the hallmark of that.

The reality is, we are putting some fairly average players on the field for a variety of reasons, a number of them not Fosters doing, and still winning more than we are losing. We usually lose a test to AU each year, and whilst it wasn't great to lose to Argentina for the first time, it does happen. Argentina are a good side, who have beaten every other first tier team more than once. We have lots of inexperience, and I'd imagine are building, like most teams, toward things. Setbacks will happen.

Is Ian Foster the worlds best Rugby coach? Probably not, but having won the Bledisloe, a record win over a more competitive Wallabies side (at least in the first half), it would be pretty hard going to sack him and replace him, and who would you replace him with?

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#2761372 17-Aug-2021 11:57

Handle9:

Having access to their best, and most experienced players, will have significant benefit.

The drip drip drip of players to overseas clubs is progressing and will only get greater. There will be more and more players like McKenzie and Perenara choosing to take mid career moves but they will get longer.

NZR is trying to hold back the tide, they don't have the money to compete. It won't happen in 12 months but in 5-10 years there will be significant numbers of All Blacks playing off shore. It's probably for the best, then NZR can focus on trying to grow a grass roots rugby scene that is really struggling.

How many players do you think Australia are going to have back under the new rule? How many would make the top Australian team? 3? How many for us? 2 perhaps? I can't really even think of any. I think sabbaticals are a good alternative and compromise. It prolongs the playing career of most players who take them. MacKenzie for example has been asked to play pretty much every minute for the Chiefs in the past few years. He can't realistically keep that up.

I don't really see how NZR intends to have the money to 'fix' grass roots rugby, when the majority of income comes from either sponsorships, or tv rights. We already struggle with viewership and attendances at Super Rugby Level, remove even more AB's, and the attraction is even less. We could sell more and more of NZR, but that's a pretty short term solution.

Not sure what the answer is, but I don't necessarily see this being it.

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#2762632 18-Aug-2021 17:07

Looks like Bledisloe 3 will likely be canned. That would be disappointing.

I think it was important for the AB's to back up their performance last Saturday by showing they can front for a game that doesn't have the same level of consequence for losing, but a significant one in terms of their overall performances, progress, development.

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#2762663 18-Aug-2021 17:49

Just as well B3 wasn’t the decider then. Otherwise the Aussies would claim they were robbed by COVID.

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#2762787 19-Aug-2021 08:01

Dingbatt:

Just as well B3 wasn’t the decider then. Otherwise the Aussies would claim they were robbed by COVID.

I could probably look this up, but how is the result determined if a decider doesn't go ahead for the Bledisloe? Team that had it last year keeps it? Or Points differential? Something else?

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#2762808 19-Aug-2021 08:48

Holder retains in the event of a draw.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2763669 20-Aug-2021 12:36

I see there is some talk of the move of the Rugby Championship to Europe. Not sure how realistic that is or likely.

rippa

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#2764459 21-Aug-2021 17:22

networkn:

.

Is Ian Foster the worlds best Rugby coach? Probably not, but having won the Bledisloe, a record win over a more competitive Wallabies side (at least in the first half), it would be pretty hard going to sack him and replace him, and who would you replace him with?

I'm absolutely astonished that Foster got the job over Scott Robertson who has won 3 or 4 Super Rugby titles, Foster was a poor head coach for the Chiefs, with the great depth we have he's made to look a better coach than what he actually is.

rippa

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#2764463 21-Aug-2021 17:40

networkn:

The reality is, we are putting some fairly average players on the field for a variety of reasons, a number of them not Fosters doing,

Foster has to take full responsibility for the starting 15 & bench as he is the head coach so has the final say.

rippa

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#2764519 21-Aug-2021 19:56

For me Rieko loane is a winger not a midfielder, he played well on the wing in the first test, in the second one he looked uncomfortable in the midfield & tends to get caught out of position there, noticed he was shifted out wider when we were defending.

Reckon Papalii is better suited to blindside flanker, with Cane out would like to see either Boshier or Kirifi on the openside, they're are clearly faster than Papalii, therefore are going to be quicker to the loose ball & better link players.

I'd keep Ardie Savea at 8, he's a big asset there with his explosive pace off the back of the scrum, also has amazing leg drive so consistently powers his way through tackles

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#2764901 22-Aug-2021 15:57

Thought the AB forwards didn't go through enough phases in the two tests against Aussie.

In the first 20 minutes of each test especially we were only going through 2 or 3 phases in the forwards then smith was firing the ball out to the backs so we were shut down too easily, our forwards need to go through several plus phases which then sucks in the opposition forwards, & with us cleaning out well we will get good front foot ball giving our backs more space & time to create much better try scoring opportunities.

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#2765555 23-Aug-2021 16:26

Watching the NZR/ARU 3rd Bledisloe test thing play out has been somewhat amusing. RA is obviously playing games and Reddit is all afroth as Reddit is prone to doing. Much ado about very little. I guess when you have been the villain a few times, people are quick to make judgments. NZR don't help themselves much though. I had hoped Robinson might have put a stop to these silly antics but it seems business as usual.

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#2765574 23-Aug-2021 16:41

A small segment from a paywalled article about the format of next year's Super Rugby competition.

Agreement has been reached that all 12 teams in next year's competition will play each other once, with a further three round-robin fixtures to be randomly allocated, before eight teams feature in a traditional playoff format which will see number one on the ladder play number eight and so forth.

The mechanism to determine which three 'additional' opponents each team will play has not yet been determined.

The Moana Pasifika teams will play each other twice as well.

I like this format considerably better than the last years one. I am pretty over watching NZ teams kill each other for 10 weeks. It's far too attritional.

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