Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2805428 1-Nov-2021 15:12

Dingbatt:

So you aren’t happy with Perenara, Christie and Weber? And Smith and Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi still in NZ to name just current or recent AB No9s. Plus others that could probably play at international level.

Our thinnest stocks are probably at Lock.

No, not really happy with Perenara (and my issues with him are well known) who probably has the most ponderous time to ruck of almost any international half back, along with his slow and less than accurate passes. Weber looks OK, but certainly not at the level of the top 5 half backs elsewhere. Christy isn't really a known factor at the international level. TTT can't even make the starting lineup at the Chiefs (though is off to the Crusaders so who knows?). Smith will see out this world cup cycle but beyond that? Fakatava looks pretty slick, but he's a way from being in an international side assuming he can continue his form.

Agree on Lock. Once you are past Whitelock and Retallick, we aren't too flash for sure.

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#2805919 2-Nov-2021 08:57

Just looking around the dashboard and noticed this is the oldest thread on the top 10 that is still running - after almost exactly nine years this month.

networkn

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#2805927 2-Nov-2021 09:16

freitasm:

Just looking around the dashboard and noticed this is the oldest thread on the top 10 that is still running - after almost exactly nine years this month.

That's kinda cool :)

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#2805963 2-Nov-2021 10:48

Most weeks I enjoy the Breakdown on Youtube, though more and more I find John Kirwan further and further off the mark. I cannot understand any world in which either Blackadder or Laulala have 'perfect' tackle technique. No attempt to wrap, or use the arms. Players lead with their heads on attack every match, multiple times, and people tackle those players without incident phase after phase.

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#2807368 4-Nov-2021 12:00

I am feeling a bit ill about this test between NZ and Italy this weekend. I normally like a bit of a AB's romp, but this feels like it could actually be really grim for Italy.

From the AB's I'd like to see good discipline, and good handling, under control. Against the USA whilst the scoreline was flattering, there was plenty of passes that shouldn't have been passed, and things that were pushed when they weren't on. I'd much rather a quality performance with a 60 point gap, than a less cohesive one with a 100 point gap. I'd also like to make sure our defence stands up.

throbb

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#2807513 4-Nov-2021 13:57

networkn:

I am feeling a bit ill about this test between NZ and Italy this weekend. I normally like a bit of a AB's romp, but this feels like it could actually be really grim for Italy.

From the AB's I'd like to see good discipline, and good handling, under control. Against the USA whilst the scoreline was flattering, there was plenty of passes that shouldn't have been passed, and things that were pushed when they weren't on. I'd much rather a quality performance with a 60 point gap, than a less cohesive one with a 100 point gap. I'd also like to make sure our defence stands up.

Italy has really gone backwards, they may put up a slightly better challenge than USA but they really are a 3rd tier nation these days. The ABs handling while still not perfect was a lot better against Wales than the USA, I hope they try a build a few phases.

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#2807534 4-Nov-2021 14:33

throbb:

Italy has really gone backwards, they may put up a slightly better challenge than USA but they really are a 3rd tier nation these days. The ABs handling while still not perfect was a lot better against Wales than the USA, I hope they try a build a few phases.

I won't be surprised if they do worse than USA to be honest. We were facing USA with an experimental side who hadn't played in a couple of weeks. I expect us to be better than we were against the USA. It could be pretty terrible for Italy.

Having said that, we have been caught out before, underestimating our opponents (Argentina in 2020 jump to mind). No, I don't think there is any chance of Italy beating us, but they might put up a fight. I hope they do to be honest. If we played really well, with less experienced members of our squad and put 60 points or something on them, I think that would be a good outcome.

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networkn

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#2809171 8-Nov-2021 09:04

Well, that was really the opposite of what I wanted the AB's to produce this match against Italy. Italy were better than expected I think, but the AB's didn't prepare properly mentally and were clearly far from cohesive. it's probably the worst first 20 minutes of AB's rugby I can recall. Yes it was the least experienced team we have fielded, possibly for 20 years, but I still would have expected quite a bit better than that. I think Foster did make a good call not making mass replacements at half time and instead, expecting them to dig themselves out of it.

It does go to show just how important experience is, and for those people who constantly comment that players should be replaced in the AB's because they haven't been playing that well, or playing well in Super Rugby. If we JUST played players who were in form from the lower levels, we would be one of the worst test sides in the world IMO.

To be fair to the AB's however, Italy played better than expected, and we will put 50 points on them and kept them away from the try line.

I felt Christie put his hand up in a big way, having to play 70 minutes. I thought he was pretty decent considering. George Bridge was pretty decent in support and in link play, but try scoring opportunities just don't seem to go to his side of the park this year. There is something about the way they are playing at the moment...

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#2809174 8-Nov-2021 09:07

Wales vs RSA was an interesting game. Not particularly exciting except for the fact it was super close. Wales could feel pretty hard done by that a reasonable try scoring opportunity was spoiled by a pitch invader, and that Marx was able to get away with a high tackle without even a penalty, that would have given Wales an almost certain extra 3 points. RSA just don't seem to have much luck against Wales losing their last 4 when away.

France v Argentina was actually surprisingly close as well. Given how Argentina's results have been, France should have beaten them handily, and the game was in the balance for quite some time.

throbb

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#2809188 8-Nov-2021 09:38

networkn:

Well, that was really the opposite of what I wanted the AB's to produce this match against Italy. Italy were better than expected I think, but the AB's didn't prepare properly mentally and were clearly far from cohesive. it's probably the worst first 20 minutes of AB's rugby I can recall. Yes it was the least experienced team we have fielded, possibly for 20 years, but I still would have expected quite a bit better than that. I think Foster did make a good call not making mass replacements at half time and instead, expecting them to dig themselves out of it.

It does go to show just how important experience is, and for those people who constantly comment that players should be replaced in the AB's because they haven't been playing that well, or playing well in Super Rugby. If we JUST played players who were in form from the lower levels, we would be one of the worst test sides in the world IMO.

To be fair to the AB's however, Italy played better than expected, and we will put 50 points on them and kept them away from the try line.

I felt Christie put his hand up in a big way, having to play 70 minutes. I thought he was pretty decent considering. George Bridge was pretty decent in support and in link play, but try scoring opportunities just don't seem to go to his side of the park this year. There is something about the way they are playing at the moment...

We were bad but it did seem we were holding back. Our attack was very one dimensional, maybe to surprise the the Irish next week? The ref was terrible, it wasn't until the last 20min that he started pinging Italy for offsides that they playing the entire game and don't get me started on some of the breakdown penalties.

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#2809190 8-Nov-2021 09:45

throbb:

We were bad but it did seem we were holding back. Our attack was very one dimensional, maybe to surprise the the Irish next week? The ref was terrible, it wasn't until the last 20min that he started pinging Italy for offsides that they playing the entire game and don't get me started on some of the breakdown penalties.

I can certainly understand holding back, but handling errors and turnovers and penalties? Those stats were off the chart. I agree, Italy were very very lightly refereed at times, with players not supporting their own body weight not pinged for a long time.

Having said that, it's somewhat unlikely the majority of players who played Italy would be playing Ireland anyway? I'd expect Ireland to be awake to such a basic tactical smokescreen. You'd worry if the coach didn't look at the results as a season, and prepare accordingly.

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#2809336 8-Nov-2021 14:49

Ireland thumped Japan, I thought it might be closer than that! I suspect this might be a stern test for us next week. I am not as worried by France as I am by Ireland, though the problem with France is you never know which team you will get. They certainly CAN beat the AB's.

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#2809875 9-Nov-2021 14:07

For me, the major difference between Richie Mo'unga and Beauden Barrett right now is kicking. I think RM is faster these days, but we aren't seeing him break lines, and is instead distributing more. I would guess that given he didn't instantly adjust to test rugby, the coaches have asked him to reduce his roles a little, and focus instead on driving the team around and more tactical stuff. He is still getting through the line from time to time, but nothing along the way that BB was at his peak, and certainly not as he typically does for the Crusaders. However, his kicking both from the T and out of hand is much much better than BB who does tend to kick a bit aimlessly. I still really rate BB, no question and he has shown a fair bit of class, but in a world cup final, I'd probably prefer to be relying on the boot of RM right now.

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#2809960 9-Nov-2021 17:27

Aaron Smith has rejoined the AB's in Europe! He says he has no expectation to play but surely, if he is fit and moderately able they will play him? I'd love to see him play against France with all the hype around Dupont..

Whilst it's not a position I've ever seen him play, center or outside center is where I think it would have been interesting to see Perenara play.

After watching him play compared to Smith Weber or Christine, it's almost painful to watch him arrive to rucks and clear them.

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#2810475 10-Nov-2021 14:23

Gregor Paul at least, seems to think it's a certainty that Barrett will play at 10 this week given his article on him vs Sexton, the two 'premier' 10's since Dan Carters retirement.

Again I am a bit torn. I'd like the experience of Barrett at 10 for a big test, but RM will not reach the levels we need him to be at, if he is not exposed to high-pressure big tests. I think it's likely we will need to kick a bit against Ireland, and for that at least, I'd rather see RM assume that role.

We are pretty fortunate to have these two to choose from.

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