Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

Forums › Sports › Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

1 | ... | 438 | 439 | 440 | 441 | 442 | 443 | 444 | 445 | 446 | 447 | 448 | ... | 640

1520 posts

Uber Geek

#2888103 18-Mar-2022 11:43

networkn: So which matches are still being played this weekend?

Only one in NZ, Moana vs Chiefs at Mt Smart on Saturday 7:05pm

Panasonic 65GZ1000, Onkyo RZ730, Atmos 5.1.2, AppleTV 4K, Nest Mini's, PS5, PS3, MacbookPro, iPad Pro, Apple watch SE2, iPhone 15+

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2889598 21-Mar-2022 15:22

Congrats to 6N Champions France. I thought England might have been able to cause an upset, until I watched them. Boy, they have gone backward quite some way.

I was particularly interested to see the players on their feet as mentioned by Goldie in the breakdown last week, and it's there, but hardly as prevalent as I might have thought given all the talk about it. Plenty of players lying on the deck throughout both the Scotland v Ireland and England v France matches.

The other significant thing from watching those matches, is that there is a definite speed increase in the Northern Hemisphere team's game plan, but the skill execution isn't even close to what you see Southern Hemisphere teams play with. The number of basic handling errors I saw in those two matches left me with shaking my head. If Scotland hadn't shelled so much ball they had a chance against Ireland. England made France look better than they were I think, but I'd agree they looked the form team by a margin from the 4 teams I watched in the weekend. I'd love to see them playing the AB's in the June window honestly. I am looking forward to the Irish tests if they indeed happen.

There is talk Eddie Jones is under pressure for his job, and I can certainly understand why. I still wouldn't write England off, but they look in disarray at times. I also wonder where Eddie Jones goes to from here if he leaves England.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2890501 23-Mar-2022 10:06

Kinda funny watching the crazy online chatter now that France has pushed the AB's to third place in the rankings, despite the fact we aren't playing test rugby right now and can't earn points.

You'd think 'fans' who were this invested and knowledgeable would be able to work this out without having it pointed out.

We have some reason to be concerned but it's hardly end of the world stuff. We are mid cycle and had a heavily disrupted past 18 months. I think 2022 should give us a better indication on where we are.

I think we potentially are going to struggle a little in the physicality areas for a while, doesn't matter who is coach, you still have to work with the roster we have, and I think in a number of positions we are not settled.

Regardless, I think 3rd is probably a reasonable indication of where we are, but that's hardly reason for the vitriol I am seeing.

Grunta47

94 posts

Master Geek

#2890652 23-Mar-2022 13:13

Yep, Ill be holding judgement until after the Ireland series later this year, which has the makings of being a great series.

If we go poorly then who knows what will happen from a coaching perspective, but I think we're too far along in the World Cup cycle to make any radical changes.

I am a bit concerned about our tactics though. Had a chat to one of the AB's trainers about their end of year review and he mentioned how opposition teams have worked out our pod system and now target the outside carrier, who gets popped to by the middle runner. The outside carrier then gets isolated and the opposition jackler has a free shot. I was a bit surprised by that as we've been seeing this issue for the last two seasons, and at 1st15 level we moved away from that style of play two years ago (run a flat pod and hit either 1, 2 or 3, instead of a triangle pod and only hit middle/2).

But, at least they know where their issues are so will hopefully fix it.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2892371 26-Mar-2022 13:17

What a game between Moana Pasifika and the Hurricanes last night! Great to see them get that win under their belt though I imagine pretty tough to take for 'canes fans.

To win despite 2 cards and a massive penalty count off the back of a pretty impressive second half in many respects was impressive.

The Rebels Brumbies game was also very entertaining.

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2893025 28-Mar-2022 10:56

networkn:

What a game between Moana Pasifika and the Hurricanes last night! Great to see them get that win under their belt though I imagine pretty tough to take for 'canes fans.

To win despite 2 cards and a massive penalty count off the back of a pretty impressive second half in many respects was impressive.

The Rebels Brumbies game was also very entertaining.

They will be reasonably close in the first game against the Blues and get a thrashing in the second this week.

The funny thing was that it was heritage round and the Canes played like they used to in the first few years of Super Rugby.

Got to say I would prefer a draw at the end of 80 minutes rather than golden point. My bug bear with golden point is that the referees act different in extra time, there was at least 1 maybe 2 times Moana Pasifika did the same thing that was penalised in normal time that wasn't in extra time.

If they going to have it then I would like to see 2 things. First is no break and just carry on with a restart and that each team gets 2 points for the draw and only 1 point for winning golden point.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893105 28-Mar-2022 12:48

Jas777:

They will be reasonably close in the first game against the Blues and get a thrashing in the second this week.

The funny thing was that it was heritage round and the Canes played like they used to in the first few years of Super Rugby.

Got to say I would prefer a draw at the end of 80 minutes rather than golden point. My bug bear with golden point is that the referees act different in extra time, there was at least 1 maybe 2 times Moana Pasifika did the same thing that was penalised in normal time that wasn't in extra time.

If they going to have it then I would like to see 2 things. First is no break and just carry on with a restart and that each team gets 2 points for the draw and only 1 point for winning golden point.

MP were pretty dominant at the breakdown, and collision area and made the gain line pretty well in the second half. They did so during the golden point and referees have traditionally given some leniency when that happens, right or wrong.

I think they deserved the win personally. The match-winning try was a lovely thing and reminded me of the 2015 RWC Final with BB.

I prefer a game to have an outcome, and a tie feels really average, though I guess a tie was probably a fair outcome based on what went down.

Time-Stowers was a monster in that game.

I see TJ didn't use the offseason to improve his passes. In the first 12 minutes he threw 3 wobbly and 1 forward pass. It did improve a little over the match, but your primary two jobs are to service the ruck and pass cleanly. He does service the ruck at an ok-ish pace most of the time...

I think the guy with the second-best pass in NZ now, is Bryn Hall, in fact his passes are often so fast they catch his teammates out from time to time.

Sharesies

Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2893127 28-Mar-2022 13:26

networkn:

I prefer a game to have an outcome, and a tie feels really average, though I guess a tie was probably a fair outcome based on what went down.

I see TJ didn't use the offseason to improve his passes. In the first 12 minutes he threw 3 wobbly and 1 forward pass. It did improve a little over the match, but your primary two jobs are to service the ruck and pass cleanly. He does service the ruck at an ok-ish pace most of the time...

I think the guy with the second-best pass in NZ now, is Bryn Hall, in fact his passes are often so fast they catch his teammates out from time to time.

I think TJ and has pass speed is something that isn't going to change so the Hurricanes will have to adjust their game plan for it. I think he should have gone to League but no doubt rugby paid more.

If always going to have a result then need to change it to Rugby is a 80 minute game minimum not it is an 80 minute game. Which leads me to the fact games now days seem to go until 83rd, 84th, 85th minute. What do you think about that a game only carries on if a penalty and if a knock on the games finishes even if the other team gets the ball?

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893130 28-Mar-2022 13:35

Jas777:

I think TJ and has pass speed is something that isn't going to change so the Hurricanes will have to adjust their game plan for it. I think he should have gone to League but no doubt rugby paid more.

If always going to have a result then need to change it to Rugby is a 80 minute game minimum not it is an 80 minute game. Which leads me to the fact games now days seem to go until 83rd, 84th, 85th minute. What do you think about that a game only carries on if a penalty and if a knock on the games finishes even if the other team gets the ball?

Yeah, I mean if TJP hasn't fixed the deficiencies in his game by now, he won't. The issue isn't so much the Hurricanes, but the AB's who seem to still consider him their second choice half back. He is good defensively on the whole and does bring something on attack for sure, but I'd rather he be more accurate at the pass and drop something in his attacking play.

I don't really mind the format of the way rugby can be played for 80+ minutes now, so long as everyone has to play by the same rules, fair is fair, though often those minutes over 80 do seem frenetic and frantic and it does load the players pretty hard.

I believe that one of the reasons that the AB's didn't play well on the of end of year tour was just how tired and empty the tanks were for many of the players. (There will always be a mismatch given the calendar when they are at the start of the season and we are at the end and it's always been that way) Our domestic competition is brutal. We didn't play Aussie etc as much during Super Rugby and I think it had an impact. I don't watch a lot of the Northern Hemisphere rugby but what I have seen of it, it doesn't seem quite as taxing. @handle9 watches more and could probably make some comment here.

When I watched the France and Ireland matches, we just didn't seem to have enough in the tank to compete at the collision for 80 minutes. I think the Irish tour may provide some clarity on where we are for real in a few months time. I'd be happy with a 2-1 win against Ireland if we look more physical and our breakdown and set-piece works better.

Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2893151 28-Mar-2022 13:54

networkn:

I believe that one of the reasons that the AB's didn't play well on the of end of year tour was just how tired and empty the tanks were for many of the players. (There will always be a mismatch given the calendar when they are at the start of the season and we are at the end and it's always been that way) Our domestic competition is brutal. We didn't play Aussie etc as much during Super Rugby and I think it had an impact. I don't watch a lot of the Northern Hemisphere rugby but what I have seen of it, it doesn't seem quite as taxing. @handle9 watches more and could probably make some comment here.

When I watched the France and Ireland matches, we just didn't seem to have enough in the tank to compete at the collision for 80 minutes. I think the Irish tour may provide some clarity on where we are for real in a few months time. I'd be happy with a 2-1 win against Ireland if we look more physical and our breakdown and set-piece works better.

I think we have gone too far in the brutal game and some players get by with just a power game and nothing else. Doesn't help that all 5 teams play the same style so players don't get found out by other styles.

Also we don't adapt as quickly anymore. Gone are the days when the team would change the game plan drastically when they get beaten well.

Another problem we have is that number 1 schoolboy competition in NZ is schools trying to play a hybrid rugby league, rugby game and then when try to play real rugby get found out.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893191 28-Mar-2022 16:21

Jas777:

I think we have gone too far in the brutal game and some players get by with just a power game and nothing else. Doesn't help that all 5 teams play the same style so players don't get found out by other styles.

Also we don't adapt as quickly anymore. Gone are the days when the team would change the game plan drastically when they get beaten well.

Another problem we have is that number 1 schoolboy competition in NZ is schools trying to play a hybrid rugby league, rugby game and then when try to play real rugby get found out.

Adaption mid-game is something I don't think NZ has ever done well in recent many years. To some degree, we have ground teams down in the past for 60 minutes, so it's close, and then we open up and create space and score and win in the last 20,

which was reduced to 10 and now, not so much.

I do not believe we have the personnel to compete physically the way we may have been able to do in the past, and no coach is likely able to fix that before the RWC, so we need to develop a game play that either negates the style the other top teams are playing, or something.

That in my opinion will be the key thing that determines Fosters legacy as head coach. There is a lot of vitriol directed at him, but under his leadership the AB's have done some good things. Record wins against Australia, Argentina, the best Southern Hemisphere winning ratio in 2021 including against the World Champs. All during Covid which has been very disruptive for the AB's and Rugby players in NZ in general. If he doesn't win the RWC, regardless of why, people will use that to beat on him forevermore. It's a bit unhinged really.

Handle9

11274 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893227 28-Mar-2022 19:18

networkn:

Jas777:

I think TJ and has pass speed is something that isn't going to change so the Hurricanes will have to adjust their game plan for it. I think he should have gone to League but no doubt rugby paid more.

If always going to have a result then need to change it to Rugby is a 80 minute game minimum not it is an 80 minute game. Which leads me to the fact games now days seem to go until 83rd, 84th, 85th minute. What do you think about that a game only carries on if a penalty and if a knock on the games finishes even if the other team gets the ball?

Yeah, I mean if TJP hasn't fixed the deficiencies in his game by now, he won't. The issue isn't so much the Hurricanes, but the AB's who seem to still consider him their second choice half back. He is good defensively on the whole and does bring something on attack for sure, but I'd rather he be more accurate at the pass and drop something in his attacking play.

I don't really mind the format of the way rugby can be played for 80+ minutes now, so long as everyone has to play by the same rules, fair is fair, though often those minutes over 80 do seem frenetic and frantic and it does load the players pretty hard.

I believe that one of the reasons that the AB's didn't play well on the of end of year tour was just how tired and empty the tanks were for many of the players. (There will always be a mismatch given the calendar when they are at the start of the season and we are at the end and it's always been that way) Our domestic competition is brutal. We didn't play Aussie etc as much during Super Rugby and I think it had an impact. I don't watch a lot of the Northern Hemisphere rugby but what I have seen of it, it doesn't seem quite as taxing. @handle9 watches more and could probably make some comment here.

When I watched the France and Ireland matches, we just didn't seem to have enough in the tank to compete at the collision for 80 minutes. I think the Irish tour may provide some clarity on where we are for real in a few months time. I'd be happy with a 2-1 win against Ireland if we look more physical and our breakdown and set-piece works better.

Northern hemisphere players play a lot more games and a lot more minutes. The premiership is 26 rounds, plus playoffs and European games. The Pro 14 is similar. The intensity is pretty comparable in a different way, it's far more confrontational. They also play the Autumn internationals and six nations without the breaks NZ players have between internationals.

NZ players have a much lighter workload.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893228 28-Mar-2022 19:23

Handle9:

Northern hemisphere players play a lot more games and a lot more minutes. The premiership is 26 rounds, plus playoffs and European games. The Pro 14 is similar. The intensity is pretty comparable in a different way, it's far more confrontational. They also play the Autumn internationals and six nations without the breaks NZ players have between internationals.

NZ players have a much lighter workload.

I am surprised at all of those statements, and it was the opposite to my expectations to be honest. Everything I've ever heard prior to that, admittedly from the NZ press, has been that NZ Players have higher workloads. Perhaps has it changed in recent years?

Do you have any stats you can post comparing? I couldn't find much useful around player minutes NH vs SH?

In case it's not clear, I am not disputing your statements, but I am interested in seeing the stats if I could find some.

Handle9

11274 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893244 28-Mar-2022 20:12

networkn:

Handle9:

Northern hemisphere players play a lot more games and a lot more minutes. The premiership is 26 rounds, plus playoffs and European games. The Pro 14 is similar. The intensity is pretty comparable in a different way, it's far more confrontational. They also play the Autumn internationals and six nations without the breaks NZ players have between internationals.

NZ players have a much lighter workload.

I am surprised at all of those statements, and it was the opposite to my expectations to be honest. Everything I've ever heard prior to that, admittedly from the NZ press, has been that NZ Players have higher workloads. Perhaps has it changed in recent years?

Do you have any stats you can post comparing? I couldn't find much useful around player minutes NH vs SH?

In case it's not clear, I am not disputing your statements, but I am interested in seeing the stats if I could find some.

It's not new. The Premiership and France have always had very heavy workloads as the clubs pay the players. Ireland is more like NZ as they are centrally contracted.

Beauden Barrett and Owen Farrell both debuted in 2012. They have played a comparable numbers of tests, around 100.

Since then Barrett has played ~15500 minutes and 232 games (super rugby + tests). Farrell has played ~22400 minutes and 325 games.

networkn

Networkn
32247 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2893278 28-Mar-2022 21:28

Handle9:

Since then Barrett has played ~15500 minutes and 232 games (super rugby + tests). Farrell has played ~22400 minutes and 325 games.

Where did you pull those stats from ?

That's a big difference in minutes, I honestly didn't expect that or even close.

1 | ... | 438 | 439 | 440 | 441 | 442 | 443 | 444 | 445 | 446 | 447 | 448 | ... | 640