Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2935815 29-Jun-2022 10:42

networkn:

This is a different Irish side, one who has beaten the AB's twice in recent history, who have an excellent defensive record recently, and are pretty well oiled. Compartively this is the first MAB game of the season.

Happy to be wrong, and I certainly won't be rooting for the Irish, but I think the MAB will face a stern challenge tonight.

Did you see the team Ireland named?

5 uncapped players starting, 2 regular starters from their test team and 5-6 on the bench. The Maori AB's have just had a full season of super so match fitness won't be an issue.

Should be an absolute beauty and how good to have mid week rugby!

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#2935824 29-Jun-2022 11:08

Leicester Fainga'anuku tipped by some to take the 11 Jersey over Caleb Clarke for the first test. Probably I'd guess, a result of being able to play center as well if required. I think his powerful contact meters have helped with that too, though Clarke is no slouch in that area.

Earbanean

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#2935830 29-Jun-2022 11:20

trig42:

Not necessarily, but that's how the majority of the fans will see it. It'd be three straight losses, which hasn't happened since 1998 (and to follow on from your 2009 argument, we all know what happened in 1999).

Not wanting to be pedantic here, but 1998 wasn't mid-cycle. It was the year before the world cup. We actually had an awesome winning year, mid cycle, in 1997, and then lost at the 1999 world cup. That actually just reinforces what I said.

What we used to do back then, was always try to play the best team at the expense of depth. So when we lost 4 massively key players (Fitzy, Jones, Zinny and Bunce) at the end of '97, we were in the poo for '98 and then the world cup. What we do now is try to build depth and try new players early to mid cycle, then consolidate down as we approach the cup. That change was hard for some. Remember the frenzy when Henry used the word "rotation"?

So that's what we did last year and the cost was unsettled combos and selection uncertainty (exacerbated by COVID etc). But it should be part of a path to the best cup team. The real test is from now, when we do start whittling down and settling on key positions and combos. That's when we can actually start to judge.

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#2935832 29-Jun-2022 11:22

JPNZ:

Should be an absolute beauty and how good to have mid week rugby!

Amen!

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#2935834 29-Jun-2022 11:25

Earbanean:

So that's what we did last year and the cost was unsettled combos and selection uncertainty (exacerbated by COVID etc). But it should be part of a path to the best cup team. The real test is from now, when we do start whittling down and settling on key positions and combos. That's when we can actually start to judge.

Finally! Some reason! :)

I think people have become a little too comfortable in our dominance of Rugby and forget that what we are going through, other teams have had to do every cycle, but because of an excellent depth-building system over many years (and a few unicorn players) , we had basically two RWC winning teams at any time for the past while, and now we may need to accept we need to rebuild.

We didn't really skip a beat at the end of 2011 and 2015, in fact despite loosing a crazy number of players, our dominance in 2016 was mind-boggling.

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#2935836 29-Jun-2022 11:26

JPNZ:

Should be an absolute beauty and how good to have mid week rugby!

I hope so! and Yes, mid-week rugby occasionally is a refreshing change.

I'm also keen to see more mid-afternoon rugby in weekends.

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#2935837 29-Jun-2022 11:34

What I'd like to see from the first test against Ireland for the AB's.

Winning the contact both in offense and defense. Stopping them making the gain line with dominant (safe) tackles, and finding the holes between tacklers to make the gain line. I'd like to see strong discipline and I'd like to see smart tactical kicking. I'm less worried about our Scrum than our Lineout, which has been a better attacking weapon for us, and shaky in the past 18 months. Good quality safe cleanouts at the breakdown.

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#2935948 29-Jun-2022 13:36

I think our Womens sevens squad looks really strong. We have a great chance to defend Gold.

I am not sure about our men's, I haven't been following them closely, but checking world rankings, we are sitting at 9th. I don't think I've seen us that low any time I've previously checked. Did we skip some games? We are usually top 5 at least?

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#2936038 29-Jun-2022 16:11

networkn:

Earbanean:

Exactly. I still don't understand people smashing the panic button after 3 losses in a weird COVID disrupted year. Can anyone remember 2009? We lost 4 or 5 games and everyone said Henry was a useless coach, should never have been reappointed after 2007, and Deans should have got the job. Sound familiar? Then we all know what happened 2 years later in 2011...

Losing mid world cup cycle is actually a really good thing. It forces a rethink, allows tough selection calls to made, etc. We had huge wins mid cycle before the 2003 and 2007 world cups and again we all know happened then. Now this year is when things get more relevant. We've got a a whole run of tough tests 3 x Ireland + 2 x SA away to really see where we're at.

I'm not a huge Foster fan, but he is the coach, so let's suck it up and get on with it. It seems like every time an All Black as much as spills their coffee, people start ranting about Foster and the end of the world.

I absolutely agree. Despite defending him a lot, I don't *really* have a horse in this race. Personally, I like winning RWC's but I'd rather be #1 in the world for 90% of the time and exit at Semis or get second, than win nothing and win the RWC.

I am also realistic, that during our dominance in Rugby for the last 15+ years, we have had a unicorn team where almost every player in the team was the best or top 2-3 in their positions in the world. That isn't the case right now.

The hate toward Foster is unhinged in my opinion. It's absolutely nuts. I think he has a 80% win rate, a win rate most international coaches would sell their grandmothers for. Look at where SA was at this period last RWC cycle.

I believe had we of won against England in the RWC, we would have beaten SA in the final, comfortably.

It doesn't really feel like we have really matured as fans and can't tolerate losing and understanding why. It's disappointing.

We may not win the RWC, but Foster would be only 1 of many factors that affect that.

It's not just about the ABs losing some matches, that's going to happen - what's really alarming for me is how badly the ABs got beaten up in the forwards against both France & Ireland, also this current staff don't seem to have a plan or good tactics in place... hopefully with Schmidt involved with the coaching staff now we might see good improvement building up to the RWC.

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#2936040 29-Jun-2022 16:16

artbloke:

It's not just about the ABs losing some matches, that's going to happen - what's really alarming for me is how badly the ABs got beaten up in the forwards against both France & Ireland, also this current staff don't seem to have a plan or good tactics in place... hopefully with Schmidt involved with the coaching staff now we might see good improvement building up to the RWC.

We didn't get beaten 60-0. I don't think there is any reason for panic. Joe Schmidt is joining as an independent selector, not as a coach, and he is there this week to help the existing coaches. I don't see him providing any salvation you might be hoping for.

Save your panic for 6 test matches time if you haven't seen any progress. I don't feel last year was a good indication on what's what for the AB's.

I think it's pretty encouraging to see Foster bring in external help, it shows a willingness to change/learn/develop. Most head coaches wouldn't be happy to even consider it. Look at Chieka. He was struggling considerably more than Foster.

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#2936042 29-Jun-2022 16:18

networkn:

I think our Womens sevens squad looks really strong. We have a great chance to defend Gold.

I am not sure about our men's, I haven't been following them closely, but checking world rankings, we are sitting at 9th. I don't think I've seen us that low any time I've previously checked. Did we skip some games? We are usually top 5 at least?

They missed the first few tournaments due to covid travel disruptions so are not sitting near the top of the points table like you would normally expect. They've done reasonably well in the tournaments they have played in considering the lack of preparation they've had compared to the other teams.

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#2936043 29-Jun-2022 16:19

maoriboy:

They missed the first few tournaments due to covid travel disruptions so are not sitting near the top of the points table like you would normally expect. They've done reasonably well in the tournaments they have played in considering the lack of preparation they've had compared to the other teams.

Yeah, I thought I had heard something about it. We are almost always there or thereabouts.

artbloke

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#2936048 29-Jun-2022 16:30

Looking forward to this one - as some have mentioned great to have a midweek match... reckon MABs by 12pts, surprised Bailyn Sullivan isn't starting in the midfield.

MAORI ABs : Zarn Sullivan, Shaun Stevenson, Billy Proctor, Rameka Poihipi, Connor Garden-Bachop, Josh Ioane, Brad Weber (cc), Cullen Grace, Billy Harmon, Cameron Suafoa, Isaia Walker-Leawere, Josh Dickson, Tyrel Lomax, Kurt Eklund, Ollie Norris.

Reserves: Tyrone Thompson, Tamaiti Williams, Jermaine Ainsley, Maanaki Selby-Rickit, TK Howden, TJ Perenara (cc), Ruben Love, Bailyn Sullivan.

IRELAND : Jimmy O’Brien, Jordan Larmour, James Hume, Bundee Aki (c), Keith Earls, Ciaran Frawley, Craig Casey, Gavin Coombes, Nick Timoney, Cian Prendergast, Kieran Treadwell, Joe McCarthy, Tom O’Toole, Dave Heffernan, Jeremy Loughman.

Reserves: Niall Scannell, Cian Healy, Finlay Bealham, Ryan Baird, Jack Conan, Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Michael Lowry.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/129095117/sullivan-brothers-pumped-for-first-game-together-in-mori-all-blacks-v-ireland

artbloke

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#2936057 29-Jun-2022 16:44

networkn:

artbloke:

It's not just about the ABs losing some matches, that's going to happen - what's really alarming for me is how badly the ABs got beaten up in the forwards against both France & Ireland, also this current staff don't seem to have a plan or good tactics in place... hopefully with Schmidt involved with the coaching staff now we might see good improvement building up to the RWC.

We didn't get beaten 60-0. I don't think there is any reason for panic. Joe Schmidt is joining as an independent selector, not as a coach, and he is there this week to help the existing coaches. I don't see him providing any salvation you might be hoping for.

Save your panic for 6 test matches time if you haven't seen any progress. I don't feel last year was a good indication on what's what for the AB's.

I think it's pretty encouraging to see Foster bring in external help, it shows a willingness to change/learn/develop. Most head coaches wouldn't be happy to even consider it. Look at Chieka. He was struggling considerably more than Foster.

Going by AB history the ABs don't tend to get beaten by big scores... but we certainly got well & truly hammered in the Forwards by both those teams I mentioned... as we all know lose the battle in the forwards & you're on the back foot for most of the match.

From what I heard through the media Foster was told to bring in extra help by the NZRU.

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#2936256 29-Jun-2022 22:36

Well, I am glad to be wrong about the score. Well done to the MAB for a great first half of Rugby.

Some great displays of talent tonight. Zarn Sullivan, Cullen Grace, Billy Harmon.

Brad won't be happy. Its not often TJP would outshine another halfback in ruck service and distribution. TJP really looked in his element though, which was nice to see.

I definitely think the Irish will put up a significantly greater challenge on Saturday. I'd expect less mistakes and less penalties. Hopefully, we can put them under the same amount of pressure.

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