Have had trouble posting... had to post 5 times until finally one worked.

Concerning the rush defence when our forwards are going backwards - was amazed Hansen & now Foster hardly use a long wiper kick towards the sideline to turn the opposition around, the other side are all up flat, so there's acres of space behind them & just the fullback sweeping at the back... it's also about the 10 reading the game & using that tactic when needed.

networkn - did you see my reply at the bottom of page 458

networkn:

 

JPNZ:

 

Possibly the weakest All Blacks team named to play a Tier 1 nation in many many years.

 

Only 3 players playing out of position, would not be surprised to see the AB's drop 1 or 2 in this 3 test series.

 

 

 

Looks like it will be wet too, so the forward battle and set piece will be very important

 

 

Wondering what your 23 looks like? 

 

 

 

I see a bit of angst online toward Barrett at 6... 

 

Loose Forwards
Pita Gus Sowakula* (Chiefs, Taranaki)
Sam Cane – Captain (Chiefs, Bay of Plenty)
Dalton Papalii (Blues, Counties Manukau)
Ardie Savea (Hurricanes, Wellington)
Akira Ioane (Blues, Auckland)
Hoskins Sotutu (Blues, Counties Manukau)

 

 

 

Ioane is injured, he is the only 'specialist' 6 there, who else would we have played?  Papilli is still not 100% so is on the bench... 

 

 

 

If Papilli isn't properly fit someone else should have his spot on the bench instead... anyway, reckon Barrett will do the job & he also adds more height to our lineout too.

artbloke:

 

My point was we had better options for head coach... of course I've mentioned the other issues, the main one is how poor we are at the breakdown area & have given reasons why, as said it's probably the most crucial area because it's the most contested.

 

Yeah, we had problems going back in the forwards in the last year or two when Hansen was coach - we don't take the ball up through enough phases, then the 9 fires the ball out to the backs, so the defence is standing on top of them... the forwards need to take the ball through a lot more phases to suck in their forwards making it harder for them to fan across the field, then when we tire them out a bit we will get more space to run in giving our back good front foot ball.

 

Not sure who you felt would have been better?

At the end of the day, in my view there are a few issues for the AB's. Our forwards are our biggest issue, I don't consider that a failing of Foster and Co. If the players can't or won't do the work, and you can only pick from who's available, then that's really mostly a player/personnel issue. 

I genuinely believe that Covid has negatively impacted the development of the AB's under Foster, and I don't consider that his fault either. 

I do have concerns around his use of players like Richie Mo'unga, who doesn't seem to get the license to do his thing, that he gets at the Crusaders, instead gets told to play a more structured game, where he simply shovels on the ball. 

I agree our tactical kicking needs work, though I have seen decent improvement in our taking the ball in the air, and we have done better than we had been against aerial assaults. 

I also feel that our opposition has bridged the skill and fitness gap we relied on to get us across the line for a long time. 

I'd like us to be better and further along, and I'll be more concerned if at the end of this year, we can't see a plan developing around the management of our weak areas, but I am a long way from ringing the alarm bells yet.

JPNZ:

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like it will be wet too, so the forward battle and set piece will be very important

 

The forward battle & set pieces are always very important whether in wet or dry conditions... want to see real improvement there by the ABs, hope our tight-five go well.

artbloke:

 

anyway, reckon Barrett will do the job & he also adds more height to our lineout too.

 

Agreed. Some have said we may suffer at the breakdown, and that may be true, but right now it's a choice between a 6 who isn't really a 6 where we may lose something at the lineout, or a 6 who isn't really a 6 where we suffer at the breakdown. I believe Scott can handle both OK, and so his selection under the circumstances is probably the right one. 

networkn:

 

artbloke:

 

My point was we had better options for head coach... of course I've mentioned the other issues, the main one is how poor we are at the breakdown area & have given reasons why, as said it's probably the most crucial area because it's the most contested.

 

Yeah, we had problems going back in the forwards in the last year or two when Hansen was coach - we don't take the ball up through enough phases, then the 9 fires the ball out to the backs, so the defence is standing on top of them... the forwards need to take the ball through a lot more phases to suck in their forwards making it harder for them to fan across the field, then when we tire them out a bit we will get more space to run in giving our back good front foot ball.

 

 

Not sure who you felt would have been better?

 

At the end of the day, in my view there are a few issues for the AB's. Our forwards are our biggest issue, I don't consider that a failing of Foster and Co. If the players can't or won't do the work, and you can only pick from who's available, then that's really mostly a player/personnel issue. 

 

I genuinely believe that Covid has negatively impacted the development of the AB's under Foster, and I don't consider that his fault either. 

 

I do have concerns around his use of players like Richie Mo'unga, who doesn't seem to get the license to do his thing, that he gets at the Crusaders, instead gets told to play a more structured game, where he simply shovels on the ball. 

 

I agree our tactical kicking needs work, though I have seen decent improvement in our taking the ball in the air, and we have done better than we had been against aerial assaults. 

 

I also feel that our opposition has bridged the skill and fitness gap we relied on to get us across the line for a long time. 

 

I'd like us to be better and further along, and I'll be more concerned if at the end of this year, we can't see a plan developing around the management of our weak areas, but I am a long way from ringing the alarm bells yet.

 

 

 

 

 

I would've had Robertson as head coach, his Crusaders players have heaps of respect for him & he has also coached them to 6 or 7 Super titles, reckon the bloke has very good rugby sense.

For sure, our forwards are our biggest weakness & that's a massive worry, win the battle in the forwards & you control most of the game.

The Covid situation is clearly not a coaches or players fault in any sport anywhere in the world.

Yeah, the other sides have definitely improved, unfortunately the ABs have gone backwards... didn't think I'd ever say that about any All Black team, just can't believe how poorly we are playing in the forward pack.

artbloke:

 

 

 

I would've had Robertson as head coach, his Crusaders players have heaps of respect for him & he has also coached them to 6 or 7 Super titles, reckon the bloke has very good rugby sense.

 

For sure, our forwards are our biggest weakness & that's a massive worry, win the battle in the forwards & you control most of the game.

 

The Covid situation is clearly not a coaches or players fault in any sport anywhere in the world.

 

Yeah, the other sides have definitely improved, unfortunately the ABs have gone backwards... didn't think I'd ever say that about any All Black team, just can't believe how poorly we are playing in the forward pack.

 

 

 

Some said continuity was a downside, I saw it as a big plus. I wouldn't have been upset if Robertson had been given the job (though I still feel he would benefit greatly from some international coaching experience, something relatively new to my preferences) , but I felt it was fair to give Foster a chance. He has been a loyal servant to NZR, and I think it would be silly to suggest he didn't play a major part in the AB's success. 

He had the support of the Board, the Players and got a strong endorsement from the prior Coach. I think that says something too. If the guy was a total numpty, I don't think he would have been given the job of assistant coach, or nor kept it as long as he did, let alone get the top job. Even after what some consider to be a disappointing result in 2021, we still hit some decent milestones. You can discount the Bled and Rugby Championship but they are important. Or Losing them would be considered a major blow.

I don't think our forwards are terrible. They probably aren't the best pack in the world anymore, and they can be inconsistent, but they are capable of strong performances. I don't really feel the performances against Ireland or France were typical, and were contributed to by a tough 2021.

I am excited to see how a less tired pack goes against Ireland in the next 3 tests, but even if it's not great, I don't think it's time to panic too much :) 

I think fans overseas were a lot more tolerant of their teams failures as a result of Covid than we have been. I actually felt genuinely concerned for the players at the last 3 tests last year, they looked totally spent.

networkn:

 

artbloke:

 

 

 

I would've had Robertson as head coach, his Crusaders players have heaps of respect for him & he has also coached them to 6 or 7 Super titles, reckon the bloke has very good rugby sense.

 

For sure, our forwards are our biggest weakness & that's a massive worry, win the battle in the forwards & you control most of the game.

 

The Covid situation is clearly not a coaches or players fault in any sport anywhere in the world.

 

Yeah, the other sides have definitely improved, unfortunately the ABs have gone backwards... didn't think I'd ever say that about any All Black team, just can't believe how poorly we are playing in the forward pack.

 

 

 

 

Some said continuity was a downside, I saw it as a big plus. I wouldn't have been upset if Robertson had been given the job (though I still feel he would benefit greatly from some international coaching experience, something relatively new to my preferences) , but I felt it was fair to give Foster a chance. He has been a loyal servant to NZR, and I think it would be silly to suggest he didn't play a major part in the AB's success. 

 

He had the support of the Board, the Players and got a strong endorsement from the prior Coach. I think that says something too. If the guy was a total numpty, I don't think he would have been given the job of assistant coach, or nor kept it as long as he did, let alone get the top job. Even after what some consider to be a disappointing result in 2021, we still hit some decent milestones. You can discount the Bled and Rugby Championship but they are important. Or Losing them would be considered a major blow.

 

I don't think our forwards are terrible. They probably aren't the best pack in the world anymore, and they can be inconsistent, but they are capable of strong performances. I don't really feel the performances against Ireland or France were typical, and were contributed to by a tough 2021.

 

I am excited to see how a less tired pack goes against Ireland in the next 3 tests, but even if it's not great, I don't think it's time to panic too much :) 

 

I think fans overseas were a lot more tolerant of their teams failures as a result of Covid than we have been. I actually felt genuinely concerned for the players at the last 3 tests last year, they looked totally spent.

 

I reckon with Robertson not having coached overseas isn't a big factor - the NZ Super Rugby teams play a very fast paced game like the ABs, so for me Robertson was the ideal bloke to get the job... the main problem as we have both mentioned is in the forwards, that's not that difficult to fix as it's about every one executing their role well, also better option taking from 9 & 10.

How did Foster play a big part in the success of the Hansen coached team... can't think of anything he put in place that was a big asset to the team ?

This Covid situation is definitely scary stuff for everyone... but certainly more scary for international sports teams that have to travel a lot to other countries.

artbloke:

 

How did Foster play a big part in the success of the Hansen coached team... can't think of anything he put in place that was a big asset to the team ?

 

Go back and watch some interviews with Hansen. He was often mentioning Foster (and his other coaches), even long before he stepped down, and the contribution he was making to the team. Specifically, I don't think you'd get told what exactly is done, but can you name something significant that an assistant coach has done for France, Ireland, or South Africa. They are a team and as such single players and people aren't usually singled out. Hansen and his co-coaches oversaw what would arguably be considered the most dominant period of NZ Rugby ever. I think it's pretty unlikely Foster would have remained at the AB's if Steve Hansen didn't value his contribution. Hansen didn't seem to suffer fools gladly and wasn't short of a sharp word if he felt it was deserved.

 

This Covid situation is definitely scary stuff for everyone... but certainly more scary for international sports teams that have to travel a lot to other countries.

 

I think the biggest thing for the AB's was the sheer amount of time away from families, at a time where NZ was going through lockdowns, and outbreaks, and just the stress of different requirements, different restrictions in all the different places. The lack of freedom to just go out and get yourself some space. It shouldn't be underestimated, and hence I feel 2021 should be a year the fans gave the AB's and coaching staff, a bit of breathing space. If things are still not good this year (and I don't really consider 2021 to have been too bad considering) , then perhaps I'll feel differently about Foster. 

Anyways, I'm done discussing/defending the AB's and their coaches for the while, at the end of the day, you are entitled to your opinion, it's not my job to make you like Foster, I just feel he gets an unfair shellacking (in general). He has his apparent weaknesses, but I do feel some of the issues need to be looked at from a few different angles. 

You don't need to be told what has been done, you can see what's happening on the field & analyse it for yourself - Foster use to be a 1st-five, so obviously was running the backline when Hansen was Coach, yet Foster had no idea how to counter the rushing defence, especially when we were going backwards & that is still the case, that speaks volumes to me about the lack of insight he has.

Yeah, we're only going around in circles may as well leave it there.

What really annoys me is all the aimless box kicking and aimless punting downfield directly to the opposition by the ABs, in fact you see too much of that that type of thoughtless kicking by all teams.

1st TEST {Eden Park, Auck}

ABs v IRELAND

Sat 2nd July - 7.05pm

ABs : Jordie Barrett, Sevu Reece, Rieko Ioane, Quinn Tupaea, Leicester Fainga'anuku, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, Ardie Savea, Sam Cane (captain), Scott Barrett, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Ofa Tuungafasi, Codie Taylor, George Bower. Reserves : Samisoni Taukei'aho, Karl Tu'inukuafe, Angus Ta'avao, Pita Gus Sowakula, Dalton Papalii, Finlay Christie, Richie Mo'unga, Braydon Ennor.

IRELAND : Hugo Keenan, Keith Earls, Gary Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, James Lowe, Johnny Sexton (c), Jamison Gibson-Park, Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier, Peter O’Mahony, James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne, Tadhg Furlong, Dan Sheehan, Andrew Porter. Reserves : Dan Heffernan, Finlay Bealham, Cian Healy, Kieran Treadwell, Jack Conan, Conor Murray, Joey Carbery, Bundee Aki.

artbloke:

You don't need to be told what has been done, you can see what's happening on the field & analyse it for yourself - Foster use to be a 1st-five, so obviously was running the backline when Hansen was Coach, yet Foster had no idea how to counter the rushing defence, especially when we were going backwards & that is still the case, that speaks volumes to me about the lack of insight he has.

Yeah, we're only going around in circles may as well leave it there.

You rate Foster, I don't, get over it - as for the rush defence you really only have two options, you either take the ball through a lot phases to nullify it or if you can't make any ground in the forwards that's when you apply a smart kicking game with long wipers kicks behind them into space ect, key is to find space whether it's a pop kick over the top or grubber kicks so they apply plenty of pressure, which clearly we hardly ever do... you don't leave a gap or a weakness elsewhere by using a tactic if a 10 takes the right option for a situation & executes well.