Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2938554 5-Jul-2022 16:02

I feel really sorry for Sam Cane who just seems to be massively under fire right now. He doesn't really deserve all the negative attention he gets. He wasn't my first choice for AB's captain (Whitelock is, though I was a little underwhelmed by him on the end-of-year tour) but I felt he was good on Saturday night. I think he will be better this week and get better throughout the season. He has had some injuries, but time and time again he has shown his class in black, leading from the front, and people need to leave him alone and see where we are in a few weeks.

I think people tend to undervalue his contribution in breaking teams down, so that the replacements can work their magic. It's not easy, and it's not generally noticeable but you need some grinders in a team.

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artbloke

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#2938713 6-Jul-2022 09:51

Thought Cane played pretty well in that 1st test, so that criticism is nonsense... was very surprised he returned from that broken neck, must be very risky for him health wise to keep playing.

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#2938716 6-Jul-2022 10:01

artbloke:

Thought Cane played pretty well in that 1st test, so that criticism is nonsense... was very surprised he returned from that broken neck, must be very risky for him health wise to keep playing.

He's a smart guy, I can't see him going back to Rugby without having the all-clear and approval from the Doctors. The AB's doctors don't mess around either. If it's not safe to play, you don't play.

At this point, between us and Ireland with Covid and injuries, I am unsure if a win is going to be a great indicator of where we are rather than if either country can field a fully competitive team.

I just hope we can get through these tests before the country goes into Red for a bit again. (Which I'd like to add is simply my opinion on what might happen not a declaration of impending changes).

artbloke

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#2938721 6-Jul-2022 10:10

networkn:

artbloke:

This coaching staff tried to counter the rushing defence last year with box kicks, would call that aimless kicking - the ball only travels about 30 metres downfield, also the other side are running towards the ball, so well over 50% of the time they going to win it in the air... that just low percentage stuff.

When all 10's get front foot ball though they're going to go better, giving them more time & space operate... still have to take good options & execute accurately though.

If those two 10's were out for whatever reason I'd bring in Josh Ioane who's a good running 10 like the other two, their running games keep the defence in two minds... there's also Gatland, but he's more of a solid type of player.

Considering many teams last year used the box kick (some almost exclusively looking at you SA) , and it was praised as a good effective technique by many pundits, esp of players like Faf de Clerk and DuPoint. It certainly wasn't characterised as aimless when done by them.

Perhaps we weren't executing it well enough (too deep) or were failing to regain possession well enough.

Variance is a key component of keeping you opponents from using the same defensive patterns all the time.

The Boks as we know have always played 10 man rugby, so their 9s & 10s do a ton of kicking - doesn't matter if a box kick is executed accurately because most of the time the opposition will win the ball in the air if they have decent technique, which they should have, as all they do is play rugby... for me the box kick is a good option for a halfback from inside his 22 to kick the ball out downfield, also in the rain in wet slippery conditions.

As mentioned before with the defences up so flat there is always plenty of space behind to execute long diagonal kicks to the sidelines or corners into space, same accuracy applies to the short kicking game behind the defence, thought the Irish 1st-five did that brilliantly with 2 or 3 pop kicks that put a lot of pressure on us... absolutely, variation is the key, don't want to be predictable or easy to read.

artbloke

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#2938731 6-Jul-2022 10:20

networkn:

artbloke:

Thought Cane played pretty well in that 1st test, so that criticism is nonsense... was very surprised he returned from that broken neck, must be very risky for him health wise to keep playing.

He's a smart guy, I can't see him going back to Rugby without having the all-clear and approval from the Doctors. The AB's doctors don't mess around either. If it's not safe to play, you don't play.

At this point, between us and Ireland with Covid and injuries, I am unsure if a win is going to be a great indicator of where we are rather than if either country can field a fully competitive team.

I just hope we can get through these tests before the country goes into Red for a bit again. (Which I'd like to add is simply my opinion on what might happen not a declaration of impending changes).

Yeah, he would've had the ok by the doctor etc... just know if it was me I wouldn't go back to playing rugby, just too much of a risk, but that's his choice, just hope he comes through it well.

Unfortunately this Covid situation is going to be an ongoing issue for ages, so all sports teams are going to keep having the same problems.

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#2938842 6-Jul-2022 14:53

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/all-blacks-v-ireland-why-world-rugby-needs-more-men-like-sam-whitelock-gregor-paul/KDJDRFMM7PIUCF4JP7RWFRAUUQ/

A nice accurate tribute to Sam Whitelock, unfortunately, behind a paywall.

JPNZ

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#2939149 7-Jul-2022 12:40

All Blacks team for second test (15-1)

George Bower (12)
Codie Taylor (67)
Ofa Tu’ungafasi (45)
Brodie Retallick (93)
Scott Barrett (49)
Dalton Papalii (13)
Sam Cane (78) captain
Ardie Savea (60)
Aaron Smith (103)
Beauden Barrett (102)
Leicester Fainga’anuku (1)
Quinn Tupaea (8)
Rieko Ioane (48)
Sevu Reece (18)
Jordie Barrett (37)

Samisoni Taukei’aho (10)
Aidan Ross* (0)
Angus Ta’avao (21)
Patrick Tuipulotu (41)
Pita Gus Sowakula (1)
Folau Fakatava* (0)
Richie Mo’unga (33)
Will Jordan (13)

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#2939152 7-Jul-2022 12:44

Slightly surprised at Leicester's inclusion on the wing again. Wondering if it was a necessity-based selection or based on his performance last week.

Same with Aiden Ross and Folou (thought he might have been introduced in the 3rd match if the series was won).

1-10, 13, 14, and 15 was pretty much picked as I expected.

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#2939153 7-Jul-2022 12:46

3 openside flankers all starting. Foster really has no idea

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#2939156 7-Jul-2022 12:54

JPNZ:

3 openside flankers all starting. Foster really has no idea

Who would you select instead? I don't think it's a matter of no idea, rather than no better choice?

JPNZ

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#2939159 7-Jul-2022 13:04

networkn:

JPNZ:

3 openside flankers all starting. Foster really has no idea

Who would you select instead? I don't think it's a matter of no idea, rather than no better choice?

I'd be MUCH happier with

6. PGS

7. Papaili

8. Savea

But seeing Cane somehow HAS to be there even though he's the 3rd best 7 in NZ. Don't even mention the captaincy plenty of others could do that in that team BB, AS etc

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#2939160 7-Jul-2022 13:10

JPNZ:

I'd be MUCH happier with

6. PGS

7. Papaili

8. Savea

But seeing Cane somehow HAS to be there even though he's the 3rd best 7 in NZ. Don't even mention the captaincy plenty of others could do that in that team BB, AS etc

Not sure I'd agree Cane is the 3rd best TEST 7, who else are you saying is better than him proven at test level? He played pretty well last week.

Given the number of other debutants, I am not sure adding PGS to the mix would be my first choice to start either.

I think Cane has proven experience and is a good grind-down player to tire and break down the opposition.

So given that Cane has to be there, who else are you playing if you don't want 3 opensides?

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#2939166 7-Jul-2022 13:23

Based on form, I'd have Papalil and Savea ahead of him at 7. Ardie is not technically an 8 either we should be playing and bedding in PGS or Sotutu and blooding grace.

Once again we play players out of position just to fit them in the team.

Cannot believe Tuipolutu makes it onto the bench after not even playing in NZ this year, not a good look for young up and coming locks like Josh Dickson, Isaia Walker-Leawere, Sam Darry, Quinten Strange etc

Anyways, I expect a high scoring match under the roof, Ireland will be fired up and should play a lot better for an extra week of prep in NZ.

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networkn

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#2939178 7-Jul-2022 13:44

JPNZ:

Based on form, I'd have Papalil and Savea ahead of him at 7. Ardie is not technically an 8 either we should be playing and bedding in PGS or Sotutu and blooding grace.

Once again we play players out of position just to fit them in the team.

Cannot believe Tuipolutu makes it onto the bench after not even playing in NZ this year, not a good look for young up and coming locks like Josh Dickson, Isaia Walker-Leawere, Sam Darry, Quinten Strange etc

Anyways, I expect a high scoring match under the roof, Ireland will be fired up and should play a lot better for an extra week of prep in NZ.

On test form, with so many other inexperienced players in the side presently, I can't agree that you'd leave out Cane (effectively stripping him of the Captaincy).

Savea has spent as much time at 8 as seven recently, and Papilli is a 7, so if you played Savea you'd need to exclude Papilli.

Tuipolutu is an incumbent and bought in temporarily to cover specialist lock position.

For me, this team isn't who they would pick if they had more choices. You have two options in my opinion. Throw the dice, play a wildly inexperienced team based on form and take your lumps if we lose, or try and find the best balance of experience you can with the players you have, which is what they have done in my opinion.

What position would you play Grace? If not 8, then HE is out of position, and if you play him at 8, there is no space for PGS.

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#2939184 7-Jul-2022 14:07

I think this loose forward trio may also partially have been picked to try and compete faster/more at the breakdown. Perhaps get some turn over ball and try and starve Ireland of possession. I don't think the AB's can sustain 200 tackles a week.

All 3 are pretty decent at getting turnovers.

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