Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2940578 11-Jul-2022 06:42

Honestly they would have still won. They were wise to the cut-out passes and the ones we did manage to throw were fumbled more often than is acceptable. We didn't bring a whole lot else to the table.

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JPNZ

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#2940583 11-Jul-2022 08:00

networkn:

Does anyone think that 15 against 15 Ireland wpuld have won last night?

Yes, easily they should have won by more. Poor handling by the Irish saved the AB's more red faces

The problems since the last world cup are rearing their heads again, we were DOMINATED in the forwards and we will lose on Saturday again unless we fix it. 3 Loose forwards at 6-7-8 worked wonders....

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#2940589 11-Jul-2022 08:29

Really? I'm a bit surprised to be honest.

They won by 11 and we had 13 for 20 minutes and 14 for 50 minutes.

You don't think us being dominated in the forwards was a result of having to defend with 13/14 players? You don't think at least some of the handling errors and tactical errors was a result of fatigue?

GV27

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#2940592 11-Jul-2022 08:36

networkn:

Really? I'm a bit surprised to be honest.

They won by 11 and we had 13 for 20 minutes and 14 for 50 minutes.

You don't think us being dominated in the forwards was a result of having to defend with 13/14 players? You don't think at least some of the handling errors and tactical errors was a result of fatigue?

Those are unfortunately the literal cards we got dealt.

The real question is why there was no pivot to a plan B when it became obvious that we couldn't execute plan A with 13/14 players.

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#2940594 11-Jul-2022 08:48

GV27:

Those are unfortunately the literal cards we got dealt.

The real question is why there was no pivot to a plan B when it became obvious that we couldn't execute plan A with 13/14 players.

I'm not disputing the result, not saying the cards weren't correctly interpreted under the current laws, the question was, if both teams had a card-free match, would Ireland have won?

I don't believe so based on what I posted above.

We are starting too slowly, both weeks Ireland have started strong.

I feel we could have played a lot more territory, a smarter kicking game and keeping them down their end of the field more would have helped, but unless you can win set-piece, which is a fair bit harder with one of the form players in the world missing from your forwards, it's a tough ask.

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#2940621 11-Jul-2022 09:25

Let me ask a theoretical question here.

If instead of Robertson, Schmidt or one of the other 'better' coaches had been in charge on Saturday night how would you feel about this loss?

What percentage of Saturday's loss would you put down to :

Coaching Issues

Player Issues (not playing well, not making good decisions).

Covid enforced changes

Unfortunate circumstances (red card etc)?

There seems to be some debate as to whom was responsible for deciding who went off after the Red Card? Players or Coaches?

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#2940624 11-Jul-2022 09:33

networkn:

There seems to be some debate as to whom was responsible for deciding who went off after the Red Card? Players or Coaches?

100% thats a coaching/management issue, I don't care who is to blame. Just someone F'd up and thats all that needs to be said.

Technically, it was Papaili that wasn't able to return after the red card and he should have been the one taken off. Regardless the players don't choose who gets subbed off

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#2940639 11-Jul-2022 10:36

AB's 2023 Pool now confirmed as :

France, Italy, Namibia, and Uruguay

Should hopefully mean we at least make the Quarters :)

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#2940644 11-Jul-2022 10:50

JPNZ:

100% thats a coaching/management issue, I don't care who is to blame. Just someone F'd up and thats all that needs to be said.

Technically, it was Papaili that wasn't able to return after the red card and he should have been the one taken off. Regardless the players don't choose who gets subbed off

What do you mean technically it was Papaili? I thought that Darren Shand was trying to get someone other than Ardie off, and was overruled by the on-field management team?

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#2940650 11-Jul-2022 11:08

networkn:

What do you mean technically it was Papaili? I thought that Darren Shand was trying to get someone other than Ardie off, and was overruled by the on-field management team?

My take on what happened..

1. NZ tighthead Ofa Tu'ungafasi was shown a yellow card in the 25th minute. This meant NZ would have to make a change at the next scrum to ensure they could remain contested.

2. That happens immediately as Ireland opt for the scrum and NZ tighthead Angus Ta'avao comes on for back row Dalton Papali'i as a temporary replacement.

3. In the 31st minute, Ta'avao is sent off for a high tackle on Garry Ringrose.

4. Law 3.20 states that "if a temporary replacement is sent off, the originally replaced player is not permitted to return to the playing area." So that would mean that Papali'i cannot return to the pitch.

5. Ireland finally opt for a scrum in the 33rd minute and at this stage, Jaco Peyper calls for uncontested scrums. NZ still have to send on another front row player, so Aidan Ross comes on as temporary replacement for Ardie Savea.

6. NZ should go to 12 players at this stage, according to the World Rugby Laws

7. However, we can see here that they stay at 13. This goes on for two minutes on the match clock (33 to 35 mins on the match clock)

8. In the 36th minute, Tu'ungafasi returns from his sin-bin period.

9. Papali'i and Savea both come onto the field at the same time. NZ now have 15 players on the pitch!

10. This NZ official says, "We're trying to decide whether it's 6 [Papali'i] or 8 [Savea]. Peyper says," 8 came for the red, so 8 needs to come off."

Technically it was Papaili that should have been removed from play not Savea

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#2940652 11-Jul-2022 11:19

It will be interesting to see what World Rugby say in response to Foster's 'please explain'

Regardless, I am pretty sure Savea being on wouldn't have been the difference between win and lose, but who knows. Considering most people here think Ireland would have beaten us 15 on 15 (which I disagree on), doesn't seem likely.

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#2940661 11-Jul-2022 11:43

Well Ireland were very close to scoring twice more, it was very close to being a penalty try at 24 mins when Ofa got his YC, I cannot see what sort of "cover defense" Jaco saw as there was nobody in front of the Irish player. Also in the 33rd min when Ireland attacked off the scrum and NZ had 13 on the pitch when they should have had 12 and James Lowe knocked it on with the line and players open outside him.

Really sets up a cracking game this weekend in windy wet wellington.

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#2940663 11-Jul-2022 11:46

I want us to win, but more than that, I want it to be a card-free, conflict-free match where both teams play to their potential.

I want player safety, but it feels like cards are having a massive impact on matches.

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#2940724 11-Jul-2022 14:49

So the world champs dropped a game to a team that had never won on SA soil yesterday as well. It goes to show much how closer the top 8 teams in the world are.

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#2940725 11-Jul-2022 14:52

I thought the AB's dropped to 4th in the rankings, seems we are second? Did other results in the weekend favour us somehow?

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