Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#1361413 9-Aug-2015 09:43

joker97: after sleeping on it here is my analysis

Australia - didn't get carried away, did what they were told. not high on skills, but very dedicated the the cause. made many many errors when basic skill was called upon, but didn't give up and kept heads up.
7 + 8 dominated our 6 and 7. 9 - 10 had no idea what there were doing, until their replacements came on and ran the ABs off the park. their 12 - 13 were solid. their wingers are really old and more boxers than wingers, but very experienced.

ABs - brimming with confidence. have their own brands, youtube stars, supreme in skills. no idea what there were doing when the ball can't be run. became one dimensional. 8 did the job of 6 7 8, and stole lots of wallaby lineouts. 9 was ok but 10, well you could put a traffic cone there. missed a tackle that led to a try. 12 - 13 were ok. outside backs - didn't see savea - maybe twice or thrice. but there were solid there.

can't comment on scrums. scrums are controlled by refs not players.
ref - heavily sided the ABs in the first half until Steven Moore got into his head then he was more equal, and his mistakes affected both sides rather than one.

Pretty good summary. They didn't gel, or watch the ball, or decide what to do. When SBW first kicked the ball, I could see him get it, can't do anything, what do I do, took a default kick to get rid of it. Early on, they looked slick,as a commentator said. I thought right then, they aren't playing the fast game, fast pass game that we know and love, taking time off the opposition, they were doing that on steroids, very very fast and short passes, looked great, but IMO they played above their skill level, it was like 50-50 passes then.

Eden Park? Hmm, I really dunno.

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#1361415 9-Aug-2015 09:49

tdgeek:
DizzyD: Brilliant game. Australia deserved to win. They outplayed us and deserve the credit. Well done to them.

Dan Carter in my mind gave the game away. What on earth was going on with the kicking? Poor show.

Brilliant game? Full of errors on both sides. Oz made less and were more solid. Cant blame DC, do we expect him to nail every kick? In this game had he kicked better he would have insulated a poor skill, timing and decision making showing by the AB's.

Yea missed two shots at goal, but more concerning was the zero clearing kicks, 2 failed kickoff's and 1 failed kick for touch near the start of the game. Key players need to stand up in key moments, and that man has been only OK. I thought there was very little line breaks from number 10, maybe arguably just a single piece of good attacking play that set the team up. Compare that to Slade, Barrett and Sopoaga in Super or in the black Jersey. Is it time to hit the panic button? 1 game away from world cup, I think we should be nervous...

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#1361417 9-Aug-2015 09:54

Holy Mackerel. The Pumas THUMPED the Springboks last night! 37-25 for goodness sakes. Full moon perhaps?

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#1361419 9-Aug-2015 10:01

itxtme:
tdgeek:
DizzyD: Brilliant game. Australia deserved to win. They outplayed us and deserve the credit. Well done to them.

Dan Carter in my mind gave the game away. What on earth was going on with the kicking? Poor show.

Brilliant game? Full of errors on both sides. Oz made less and were more solid. Cant blame DC, do we expect him to nail every kick? In this game had he kicked better he would have insulated a poor skill, timing and decision making showing by the AB's.

Yea missed two shots at goal, but more concerning was the zero clearing kicks, 2 failed kickoff's and 1 failed kick for touch near the start of the game. Key players need to stand up in key moments, and that man has been only OK. I thought there was very little line breaks from number 10, maybe arguably just a single piece of good attacking play that set the team up. Compare that to Slade, Barrett and Sopoaga in Super or in the black Jersey. Is it time to hit the panic button? 1 game away from world cup, I think we should be nervous...

I must admit, despite being a massive DC fan, I think there is no choice but to agree that his failure to attack the line (I thought he had good opportunities to do so that may have got us behind them and across the advantage line) was part of the issue. He is distributing. I wonder if he is worried about the contact, or has been told to do this (Yes this is a feasible option).

I am not ready to write him off yet, one bad night does not a bad player (or good player) make.

I am also concerned at the number of times passes were sent to a player who had a guy already rushing to defend it (I'd have to check but I believe quite a number of those times defender was offside . I think we need to be passing deeper (just marginally) which gives us that extra 1 second to make a better choice.

I do believe the AB's will bounce back.

tdgeek

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#1361421 9-Aug-2015 10:04

itxtme:
tdgeek:
DizzyD: Brilliant game. Australia deserved to win. They outplayed us and deserve the credit. Well done to them.

Dan Carter in my mind gave the game away. What on earth was going on with the kicking? Poor show.

Brilliant game? Full of errors on both sides. Oz made less and were more solid. Cant blame DC, do we expect him to nail every kick? In this game had he kicked better he would have insulated a poor skill, timing and decision making showing by the AB's.

Yea missed two shots at goal, but more concerning was the zero clearing kicks, 2 failed kickoff's and 1 failed kick for touch near the start of the game. Key players need to stand up in key moments, and that man has been only OK. I thought there was very little line breaks from number 10, maybe arguably just a single piece of good attacking play that set the team up. Compare that to Slade, Barrett and Sopoaga in Super or in the black Jersey. Is it time to hit the panic button? 1 game away from world cup, I think we should be nervous...

Nervous, very much so.

Lets look at the recent games. Had we won, AB's win again as always, win Bledisloe Cup, Win Rugby Championship, life is good.

OR, 25-16 over Samoa, not a great result, even with a B team, less then impressive win over SA I hear, I didn't see hat game. lost to Oz, lost Rugby Championship, go to Eden Park where we are SO strong and lose. It ends up being like a row of duck eggs. Ok, that seems pretty negative, but we are No.1, RWC is around the corner. Maybe its realistic.

Can we come back in Eden Park? I dunno. Remember, Oz were scratchy and error ridden as well, they will improve that, and be on a high. We will be under pressure, Eden Park, looking down the barrel of an easy to imagine loss. A lot will be yelled at this week, they will improve, a lot I'd say. But the key IMO has been how the AB's gel. Run hard, pass hard, don't care about checking support, it will be there, thats huge, that was lacking last night. I want Barret there all game, or a hell of a lot more, he's dynamic. Conrad Smith. Old. But you always get it from him, awesome. maybe they will alter some positions to get more gel, but it will be a hard game.

What if we do thrash them at Eden Park? That will beg the question, WTF were you doing last week?

Often its good to be brought back to reality in the lead to a big game/series. Last night may end up being a blessing. Bottom line is last nights team is the best in the world, that hasn't changed.

A very poor game by a lot of the team, yet it was still just a close scoreline to the other top team

tdgeek

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#1361422 9-Aug-2015 10:10

networkn:
itxtme:
tdgeek:
DizzyD: Brilliant game. Australia deserved to win. They outplayed us and deserve the credit. Well done to them.

Dan Carter in my mind gave the game away. What on earth was going on with the kicking? Poor show.

Brilliant game? Full of errors on both sides. Oz made less and were more solid. Cant blame DC, do we expect him to nail every kick? In this game had he kicked better he would have insulated a poor skill, timing and decision making showing by the AB's.

Yea missed two shots at goal, but more concerning was the zero clearing kicks, 2 failed kickoff's and 1 failed kick for touch near the start of the game. Key players need to stand up in key moments, and that man has been only OK. I thought there was very little line breaks from number 10, maybe arguably just a single piece of good attacking play that set the team up. Compare that to Slade, Barrett and Sopoaga in Super or in the black Jersey. Is it time to hit the panic button? 1 game away from world cup, I think we should be nervous...

I must admit, despite being a massive DC fan, I think there is no choice but to agree that his failure to attack the line (I thought he had good opportunities to do so that may have got us behind them and across the advantage line) was part of the issue. He is distributing. I wonder if he is worried about the contact, or has been told to do this (Yes this is a feasible option).

I am not ready to write him off yet, one bad night does not a bad player (or good player) make.

I am also concerned at the number of times passes were sent to a player who had a guy already rushing to defend it (I'd have to check but I believe quite a number of those times defender was offside . I think we need to be passing deeper (just marginally) which gives us that extra 1 second to make a better choice.

I do believe the AB's will bounce back.

Maybe. But given that Oz, isn't a huge skill team right now, and your SA Pumas mentioning, the RWC may be less tough than expected. Eden Park I feel can go either way, but RWC I feel they will remove the rust and decision making issues, and as you implied, maybe they, not just DC, were told to play "this" game and it didn't work and they ran around in circles. I can see them peaking for RWC. Eden Park, if they can play their normal game, and make mistakes, we will win. Last night we didn't appear to play any time of game, and didn't lose by much. We played like a 25-6 loss, but it wasn't

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#1361460 9-Aug-2015 11:24

We can and will come back at Eden Park. The tight 5 need to collectively up their game - Retallick can't do it all himself. Defensively we let in two of the softest tries close to the line I have ever seen.

Nonu back at centre for some impact. Whitelock back with Reallick for a bit more mongrel. A tighter game with fewer mistakes, especially at the start. And a referee who is not as liberal in letting Australia slow down and kill the ball in the ruck and get up offside. In my opinion pocock gets a way with a lot in terms of not supporting his own weight and not releasing. The angles he goes in at are impressive but clearly not possible unless he is supporting his body weight with his arms in the first stage.

To be fair, Australia clearly knocked us off our game and we clearly didn't deserve to win, but we played far below our potential and in my opinion Australia played close to their full potential up front. It is scary though as I felt it was similar to the game Wayne Barnes refereed when we played France and we had the ball for lots of phases but with the team creeping up offside we lacked the ability to get over the advantage line and going forward. That is how all major teams will play -- collectively a step or so offside and then we struggle to get over the advantage line and then start to look stagnant and the defensive team grows in confidence.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Hatch (affiliate link).

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#1361473 9-Aug-2015 11:36

blair003: In my opinion pocock gets a way with a lot in terms of not supporting his own weight and not releasing. The angles he goes in at are impressive but clearly not possible unless he is supporting his body weight with his arms in the first stage.

I would agree with that, a couple of times I watched in bemusement as he used his head to keep himself up; pretty sure your head doesnt count as supporting your body weight.

Barnes is a referee that can be influenced by those talking to him. Moore had more influence than McCaw. We needed Richie to point out the ruck ball and Pocokcs lack of body weight support. No you probably wont influence that turnover, however it means its on Barnes's mind, and he is a hell of a lot less likely to get away with it next time.

I did think there rush defence was very flat, and very effective. When a team is doing this to you you need to start placing tactical kicks (prefer SBW wasnt doing them) in behind their line and turn them. This AB team are very reluctant to risk possession through that style of play. If its not working though and their rush is nailing you, you have to adapt or you lose.

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#1361476 9-Aug-2015 11:55

Hope Lima is put in at No 10. After last night I don't think Carter is up to the high pressure games any more, just a yard or 2 off the pace now. Need to know if Lima can step up in those crunch games. Short of the world cup knock out matches there won't be any better opportunities than Eden Park against a fired up Aussie team with the Bledisloe on the line.

Not too worried about the result, as I think we will take A LOT away from it, just more worried about some of the performances. The players seemed a little lost but I put that down to them not actually playing together. I'm a big fan of finding your strongesst XI and playing them from day one. Use subs to try new combinations and injuries will invariably happening as wel

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#1361529 9-Aug-2015 14:30

That was an awful game to watch. Both side made so many errors that there was no flow at all.

Congratulations to the Wallabies who did enough to win.

I'm troubled by both props. I don't know if Woodcock and Franks are up to it and would like to see Laulala get more game time. I'm happy with Coles at hooker.

Whitelock has to come back in to partner Retallick in the second row. Romano wasn't up to it last night.

Uncharacteristically poor game for the back row last night. Read was sloppy, Kaino was too tied up in the tight stuff and Richie was outplayed and pretty ineffective. This back row must remain as the number one starting combination though as there are no options better than Read and Kaino, and even though Cane would provide us with more in the rucks and in general play, Richie has to stay for his captaincy and experience.

Aaron Smith had an uncharacteristically bad night at halfback, hampered somewhat by the laboured ball he was receiving.

Dc showed that he is just no longer up to it at this level. He missed two conversions, a kick for touch to set up an attacking line out and duffed a couple of restarts that didn't go ten meters. On top of that his defence was average and I only recall him attacking the line once. Yes, it led to a try, but it was a poor pass into traffic that was intercepted. The try only came about because Ben Smith was strong enough to rip it out of the Aussie payers grasp before offloading to Milner-Skudder.

SBW was atrocious and should not be taken to the RWC as he has done nothing to suggest he adds anything to the All Black backline.

Conrad Smith is starting to show his age, but as the conductor of the back line he needs to stay, especially as he is likely to be paired with Nonu and they have a proven combination.

Savea was strangely out of kilter but I liked what I saw from Milner-Skudder, however it is only one game and I would like to see more of him before deciding whether my starting right winger would be Milner-Skudder or Piutau.

It was a breath of fresh air having Ben Smith at fullback and I thought he played well, considering what he had in front of him. It was a comfort knowing we had someone at the back that would make those one-on-one tackles and the one that brought down Folau close to the line was special.

I find it interesting (and perhaps a bit disingenuous) the lack of comment yet on this forum about DC from those that consistently attack Cruden and Barrett when they miss a kick or two in test matches, claiming they aren't up to it and demanding DC be reinstated.

Starting XV for Auckland;

Prop - Laulala on one side and pick anyone else for the other side.
Hooker - Coles
Locks - Retallick, Whitelock
Flankers - Kaino, McCaw
No 8 - Read
Halfback - Smith
1st 5/8 - Sopoaga
2nd 5/8 - Nonu
Centre - Smith
Wings - Savea, Milner-Skudder
Fullback - Smith (if fit)

Reserves, Any remaining two props, Taylor, Romano (because there really is nobody else), Cane, Perenara, Barrett, Fekitoa

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#1361537 9-Aug-2015 14:47

I think SBW thinks he's playing league

blair003

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#1361539 9-Aug-2015 14:49

I think he's thinking too much. He needs to be more direct.

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#1361541 9-Aug-2015 14:53

What i don't understand is there are two players who are missing in action for years and as soon as they are available gets an express pass straight into the first team contention without waiting to see their merits first.

Anyway I've followed enough world cups of any sport to know that sport is just sport and my life carries on regardless of the score.

I would prefer the rwc be won by a southern hemisphere side though. Looking at yesterday it's good to know that at the moment it's a wide open contest. May the best team win and refs stay out of the limelight.

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#1361555 9-Aug-2015 15:18

Barrett to not be on the bench. And what is the desire to send Richie and Dan to their last RWC, over and above the best team that can be named. I feel that they are included no matter what.

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#1361559 9-Aug-2015 15:25

a bit late to discover the best 15 now. just pick whatever and stick with it. the Bledisloe on paper should be retained. unless the Wallabies have something else to counter what the ABs have to alter and bring out in 6 days. thing is, in knockout matches you don't get two chances, which is why the RWC is so unpredictable.

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