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networkn

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  #2954756 15-Aug-2022 10:09
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itxtme:

 

Your wrong, they have a review after every tour, none of this is unusual.  They even highlighted issues post the Northern tour last year, giving them their last chance.  Do you honestly think it was going to be OK to continue losing? The fact of the matter is that a certain level of performance is required, and Fosters stats are the worst of any modern NZ coach.  You might think he should sack him or allow him the cycle, but the cycle is an arbitrary date that you have in your mind, while the damage to the brand continues.  Its NZR job to do the best by their organisation, and ignoring the losses is foolish.

 

They are running a business and for some bizarre reason in your opinion there should be a continuation of the rot, rather than stamping it out??  The All Blacks may just become the Man U of union! I am still waiting for either of you to actually say what Robinson said that was so offensive to you in regards to Foster??

 

 

The Irish series we won one, lost one, and lost one under unusual circumstances, to the top team in the world.  The end-of-year review highlighted issues with the assistants, and Foster asked for a chance for those coaches to change their approach, but that takes time, and 3 tests, under difficult circumstances is hardly ideal. They have made changes (which for the record, I supported). The first test in SA wasn't great but there were signs of change and improvement and the second test showed some very encouraging signs. 

 

Neither Handle or I are advocating for Foster to keep his job per se, but the way Fosters boss has handled this in the public eye is a disgrace. In a usual employment situation you'd be opening yourself up to a personal grievance and constructive dismissal claim and looking down the barrel of a very large financial penalty. It's not about the decision of whether to keep him or not, it's about how it's handled. 

 

 

 

 


 
 
 

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itxtme
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  #2954758 15-Aug-2022 10:11
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networkn:

 

Neither Handle or I are advocating for Foster to keep his job per se, but the way Fosters boss has handled this in the public eye is a disgrace. In a usual employment situation you'd be opening yourself up to a personal grievance and constructive dismissal claim and looking down the barrel of a very large financial penalty. It's not about the decision of whether to keep him or not, it's about how it's handled. 

 

 

Specifically tell me what you are talking about because I have not seen this at all!  Just write it down here for us all to see


networkn

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  #2954761 15-Aug-2022 10:17
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itxtme:

 

networkn:

 

Neither Handle or I are advocating for Foster to keep his job per se, but the way Fosters boss has handled this in the public eye is a disgrace. In a usual employment situation you'd be opening yourself up to a personal grievance and constructive dismissal claim and looking down the barrel of a very large financial penalty. It's not about the decision of whether to keep him or not, it's about how it's handled. 

 

 

Specifically tell me what you are talking about because I have not seen this at all!  Just write it down here for us all to see

 

 

Go and read the press releases and comments by Mark Robinson and let me know if you feel that is a good way to treat an employee? Why did he even have a press conference yesterday? to announce an announcement? He said Foster had the support of the board, but wouldn't say he supported Foster. It undermines him totally. To be honest, if you read/watch those and agree with the way it's been handled, then convincing you otherwise is beyond my capabilities :-)

 

 

 

 




itxtme
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  #2954764 15-Aug-2022 10:24
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You literally refuse to provide actual quotes, or context and have summarised your opinion into a view that you are right, and I dont agree. In other words you wont backup what you are saying with actual evidence, instead suggest everyone else should go and find it when you are challenged.

 

For example yesterdays press conference Robinson refused to be drawn on the outcome of a tour review process that is occurring at the end of the week.  That doesn't make him the bad guy.  He does not have to guarantee somebodies job ahead of that process, why would he - it makes him look stupid.

 

The only difference between Fosters job and any other is that it is in the public - that is the nature of being the All Blacks coach. How this amounts to constructive dismissal is beyond me

 

 


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  #2954766 15-Aug-2022 10:29
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tukapa1:
artbloke:Exiting from within our own 22 is still an ongoing problem - we should be kicking the ball well out over the side line, so they can't run the ball back at us straightaway or have quick throw in...


You have to forgo distance to put the ball well out over the sideline.

That happens and the 'fans' start crucifying the kicker as they're not clearing far enough down field.

 

10's should still be able to make good distance kicking the ball out near the halfway mark... if you kick the ball too long from inside your 22 in the field play or they have a quick throw in you're just giving them back easy possession, allowing them to keep the pressure on.


networkn

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  #2954767 15-Aug-2022 10:31
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Ok how about Robinson and another member of the management team Chris Lendrum went to Fosters house and told him to resign if they didn't win in SA?

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/exclusive-ian-foster-told-to-resign-if-all-blacks-lose-in-south-africa/7YTXQWBULWIPGWV3VDIHRYA2PI/

 

Post Tour reviews are not unusual, I agree, but ones that constantly ask the question about the head coaches employment when he has a contract through to the RWC, certainly are. For that to be in the public eye, even more so. If you agree to allow changes to be made, and then don't give a reasonable time for those changes to get bedded in, and to take effect, then are you acting in the manner of a responsible employer? I doubt it would pass that test. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2954768 15-Aug-2022 10:36
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The longer the NZRU take mucking around pontificating, just increases the chances of the head coach keeping his job.

 

I'd drop both Aaron Smith & Christie... reckon our two best 9's to have in our squad of 23 are Weber & Fakatava.




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  #2954769 15-Aug-2022 10:40
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I was impressed with how the newbies handled the pressure on Sunday. The front row were pretty good, even very good most of the time. 

 

It annoyed me the number of times the Boks were offside but rarely picked up. Seemed like they had to be a good 2-3M offside to get noticed. 

 

What I really liked was the fact we made the gain line frequently, and recycled the ball quickly and there were very few infringements for poor quality cleanouts and it stopped a bit of the turn over ball/slowing of the recycle. 

 

I too, was surprised at the fact the Boks were showing signs of fatigue early in the match. I thought our fitness was a point of difference. 


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  #2954770 15-Aug-2022 10:48
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Man, the vitirol toward Australia  on the AU/ARG game reddit thread where Argentina won is pretty grim. It seems a lot of people globally have lost their sense of perspective. Rennie is getting a royal roasting. I don't personally rate him, but he has a crazy difficult job right now, with injuries. Pretty hard to develop players who are injured, even harder if their replacements get injured. How far should you be building depth at test level? 

 

 

 

 


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  #2954779 15-Aug-2022 11:20
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networkn:

 

I was impressed with how the newbies handled the pressure on Sunday. The front row were pretty good, even very good most of the time. 

 

It annoyed me the number of times the Boks were offside but rarely picked up. Seemed like they had to be a good 2-3M offside to get noticed. 

 

What I really liked was the fact we made the gain line frequently, and recycled the ball quickly and there were very few infringements for poor quality cleanouts and it stopped a bit of the turn over ball/slowing of the recycle. 

 

I too, was surprised at the fact the Boks were showing signs of fatigue early in the match. I thought our fitness was a point of difference. 

 

 

The new front row did a great job, and they'll only get better with more game time together as a combo.

 

The ref was very pedantic.

 

Boks are not use to playing a fast paced game, so with all the quick recycled ball we got wasn't really a surprise their forwards we're tiring a lot... the altitude isn't the big problem it use to be, we have acclimatized to it pretty well over the years through all the games NZ Super rugby teams have played in S.A. above sea level.


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  #2954782 15-Aug-2022 11:28
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networkn:

 

Man, the vitirol toward Australia  on the AU/ARG game reddit thread where Argentina won is pretty grim. It seems a lot of people globally have lost their sense of perspective. Rennie is getting a royal roasting. I don't personally rate him, but he has a crazy difficult job right now, with injuries. Pretty hard to develop players who are injured, even harder if their replacements get injured. How far should you be building depth at test level? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rennie is a good head coach, he won two Super titles in a row for the Chiefs... No doubt the Argies played well, but yeah, it's pretty difficult to perform at your best when you have a lot of good players out injured, also you lose continuity making a lot of changes in your team.


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  #2954784 15-Aug-2022 11:34
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artbloke:

 

The new front row did a great job, and they'll only get better with more game time together as a combo.

 

The ref was very pedantic.

 

Boks are not use to playing a fast paced game, so with all the quick recycled ball we got wasn't really a surprise their forwards we're tiring a lot... the altitude isn't the big problem it use to be, we have acclimatized to it pretty well over the years through all the games NZ Super rugby teams have played in S.A. above sea level.

 

 

He is a technical referee, but it works pretty well in conjunction with high-quality communication. He told the front rows to not slip the brake foot in the scrum when it had been a problem before, he reminded players not to lift the leg in lineout/maul defence. Overall I thought he was good. 

 

SA and Ireland really used the injury and water breaks too much, Pearce did ok to handle it but could have done even more. If he had kept the game moving even more I think we could have done even more damage. 

 

 

 

 


itxtme
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  #2954841 15-Aug-2022 12:05
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networkn:

 

Ok how about Robinson and another member of the management team Chris Lendrum went to Fosters house and told him to resign if they didn't win in SA?

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/exclusive-ian-foster-told-to-resign-if-all-blacks-lose-in-south-africa/7YTXQWBULWIPGWV3VDIHRYA2PI/

 

Post Tour reviews are not unusual, I agree, but ones that constantly ask the question about the head coaches employment when he has a contract through to the RWC, certainly are. For that to be in the public eye, even more so. If you agree to allow changes to be made, and then don't give a reasonable time for those changes to get bedded in, and to take effect, then are you acting in the manner of a responsible employer? I doubt it would pass that test. 

 

 

You are just proving my point!  This is a tabloid article that you use to define how Robinson has acted.  Is it even true? Who leaked it to the Herald?  What was the context of their discussion? Do you genuinely think he drove round there and said "Win in South Africa or Resign"? Your issue is with the media, but somehow you have linked the media with Robinson, and what he has done.


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  #2954848 15-Aug-2022 12:27
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networkn:

 

artbloke:

 

The new front row did a great job, and they'll only get better with more game time together as a combo.

 

The ref was very pedantic.

 

Boks are not use to playing a fast paced game, so with all the quick recycled ball we got wasn't really a surprise their forwards we're tiring a lot... the altitude isn't the big problem it use to be, we have acclimatized to it pretty well over the years through all the games NZ Super rugby teams have played in S.A. above sea level.

 

 

He is a technical referee, but it works pretty well in conjunction with high-quality communication. He told the front rows to not slip the brake foot in the scrum when it had been a problem before, he reminded players not to lift the leg in lineout/maul defence. Overall I thought he was good. 

 

SA and Ireland really used the injury and water breaks too much, Pearce did ok to handle it but could have done even more. If he had kept the game moving even more I think we could have done even more damage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The front row forwards know a lot more about technique in the front row than a ref... and lets be honest it's very difficult do the right thing exactly when 2 packs over 900kg each are powering into to each other at scrum time trying to get domination, as the scrum is an attacking weapon.

 

It's up to all refs to wake up to players trying to slow the pace of the game down.


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  #2954852 15-Aug-2022 12:39
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/129569021/take-five-the-big-all-blacks-questions-answered-after-the-victory-against-south-africa

 

This is an interesting article. I agree with almost all of it. 

 

I disagree with the narrative that he can't coach. I'd agree he hasn't shown himself to be a brilliant innovative *head* coach, but if he can be brave, and potentially make some tough decisions around selection, and maybe additional coaching changes, there is possibly light at the end of the tunnel. It's probably his biggest failing is giving too many chances to players and coaches in the hope they would turn it around.  Loyalty has paid off for AB's sides in the past, but perhaps he can strike a better balance and get a better result moving forward if given the opportunity. 

 

@handle9 you've said you'd prefer Foster to move on, who in your mind is replacing him?

 

Interestingly Cane has come out strongly behind Foster, which some might say is to keep his job, but I think the players genuinely back him.


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