Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2961064 30-Aug-2022 10:21

itxtme:

Then the two tests Taukei'aho starts there are no problems.

Taylor had a worse night than any time I can recall prior. He has been struggling for form and no-one is denying it, but to suggest that Taukei'aho's lineouts haven't struggled this year is crazy. Maybe not as badly as that, but it's hardly been 'no problem'.

Taukei'aho is the form hooker and I have no issue with him starting and the coaches got it wrong on when to replace him.

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#2961067 30-Aug-2022 10:25

tdgeek:

Well, 2 AB's said it was a brick wall, I'd class that slighly better than basic. Masterclass is a fair judgement.

It was a good solid defensive system against us, the ABs were consistently running into a brick wall though because we didn't adjust our tactics, the same problem is going to happen again too if we don't make adjustments... if something isn't working you don't keep repeating it, you change what you're doing.

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#2961071 30-Aug-2022 10:30

Many of the laws are open to interpretation, so players need to adjust to the way the ref is ruling the match, if they want to reduce their penalty count.

If the Boks & ABs can win this weekend the Comp will be wide-open again.

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#2961075 30-Aug-2022 10:34

It will be interesting to see if Argentina can put up a second performance like the one last weekend. I have my doubts.

Even the AB's have traditionally struggled to put in consecutive dominant performances. We were winning a lot of games, but people forget how much of a struggle some of those matches were and how critical people were if we didn't win by 30 points.

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#2961078 30-Aug-2022 10:42

networkn:

It will be interesting to see if Argentina can put up a second performance like the one last weekend. I have my doubts.

Even the AB's have traditionally struggled to put in consecutive dominant performances. We were winning a lot of games, but people forget how much of a struggle some of those matches were and how critical people were if we didn't win by 30 points.

I'd expect the ABs to learn a lot from last week & win this weekend.

It's not about the ABs winning by 30pts etc, the focus should always be about the quality of their performance, then the points will come.

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#2961081 30-Aug-2022 10:45

artbloke:

I'd expect the ABs to learn a lot from last week & win this weekend.

It's not about the ABs winning by 30pts etc, the focus should always be about the quality of their performance, then the points will come.

The AB's had a high win rate in the past, they won a fair number of games they really had no right to win. They won some games on luck, but the big difference was their mental focus and strength. This team doesn't have this yet. It takes time, and despite what some people think, the past few years have been incredibly tough mentally for many many people. If you don't think the AB's are impacted by that or are immune to that sort of thing, you are mistaken.

The current performances aren't acceptable, but to me I can see the reasons why. Some are pretty easily fixed, and some will take time.

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#2961085 30-Aug-2022 10:53

AB's were the better team last weekend, looked more likely to score, but gave away silly penalties. Id expect a similar game with less penatlies so AB's win. By 20 or by 2. But the core issues will still remain. The whole Championship looks pretty average. RSA beat us so they must be awesome, they get rolled by AUS, so clearly not. ARG beats us which wasnt surprising, I thought it would be close either way. If we can put in an an average performance(s) we can win more of these as its overall pretty darn weak. But the core issues will still be there, as we saw post win over RSA

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#2961088 30-Aug-2022 11:05

I thought this was an interesting statistic in an article by Gregor Paul.

Foster's win ratio of 63 per cent is the worst of any All Blacks coach in the professional age, and yet it is better than the 57 per cent which Springboks coach Jacques Nienaber has produced in the same period and considerably higher than the 38 per cent Dave Rennie has managed with the Wallabies.

Argentina's win rate up until Cheika took over was 34% and has jumped to 66% since. I recall Chieka being described week in and out for the longest time as the worst coach of any international team in recent times.

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#2961090 30-Aug-2022 11:11

networkn:

artbloke:

I'd expect the ABs to learn a lot from last week & win this weekend.

It's not about the ABs winning by 30pts etc, the focus should always be about the quality of their performance, then the points will come.

The AB's had a high win rate in the past, they won a fair number of games they really had no right to win. They won some games on luck, but the big difference was their mental focus and strength. This team doesn't have this yet. It takes time, and despite what some people think, the past few years have been incredibly tough mentally for many many people. If you don't think the AB's are impacted by that or are immune to that sort of thing, you are mistaken.

The current performances aren't acceptable, but to me I can see the reasons why. Some are pretty easily fixed, and some will take time.

Yeah, we did win a good number of very tight matches through excellent composure, as you say something this current team is missing at the moment.

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#2961091 30-Aug-2022 11:14

True, some problems are a pretty easy fix, other problems are mindset ones, so will take longer to fix.

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#2961092 30-Aug-2022 11:19

tdgeek:

AB's were the better team last weekend, looked more likely to score, but gave away silly penalties. Id expect a similar game with less penatlies so AB's win. By 20 or by 2. But the core issues will still remain. The whole Championship looks pretty average. RSA beat us so they must be awesome, they get rolled by AUS, so clearly not. ARG beats us which wasnt surprising, I thought it would be close either way. If we can put in an an average performance(s) we can win more of these as its overall pretty darn weak. But the core issues will still be there, as we saw post win over RSA

Thought in the first 10 minutes or so we were playing great rugby through the forwards & backs, looked like we we're going to thrash them... then for some strange reason after that we lost our structure, shape & composure for long periods of the match.

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#2961094 30-Aug-2022 11:30

artbloke:

Thought in the first 10 minutes or so we were playing great rugby through the forwards & backs, looked like we we're going to thrash them... then for some strange reason after that we lost our structure, shape & composure for long periods of the match.

IMO it was sound rugby not great. AUS beating RSA who we lost to and beat puts all three as pretty average. But AB's do have a presence, so looked not bad. But we cannot handle pressure, simple as that. Having said that, the overwhelming pressure applied by the media and the public, make it very difficult to "follow the process, the score will look after itself" you get to concerned about yet another loss, either play not to lose, or in this case they played reckless and hope like hell it would be ok, but it wasnt

Id be more concerned that we are not playing great teams regularly. Maybe the N.I. are. Like the last RWC, rack up win after win over island nations and weak AUS mainly, false sense of security, then we meet ENG who walked over us

Id like to see it stated that we are rebuilding, don't expect wins, but they will come in the future. Get the weight off the players, and make them perform or be replaced by a young gun. Same as AUS ran their cricket team. You had to be in form, otherwise someone in the AUS B team is already there to take your place

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#2961095 30-Aug-2022 11:50

tdgeek:

artbloke:

Thought in the first 10 minutes or so we were playing great rugby through the forwards & backs, looked like we we're going to thrash them... then for some strange reason after that we lost our structure, shape & composure for long periods of the match.

IMO it was sound rugby not great. AUS beating RSA who we lost to and beat puts all three as pretty average. But AB's do have a presence, so looked not bad. But we cannot handle pressure, simple as that. Having said that, the overwhelming pressure applied by the media and the public, make it very difficult to "follow the process, the score will look after itself" you get to concerned about yet another loss, either play not to lose, or in this case they played reckless and hope like hell it would be ok, but it wasnt

Id be more concerned that we are not playing great teams regularly. Maybe the N.I. are. Like the last RWC, rack up win after win over island nations and weak AUS mainly, false sense of security, then we meet ENG who walked over us

Id like to see it stated that we are rebuilding, don't expect wins, but they will come in the future. Get the weight off the players, and make them perform or be replaced by a young gun. Same as AUS ran their cricket team. You had to be in form, otherwise someone in the AUS B team is already there to take your place

We were heaps better than sound in the first 10 minutes, we cleaned really well on our own ball at the breakdown, so our backs were receiving very quick recycled possession to attack with, also our set pieces were very good.

It's not losses that are the real worry, no team can win all the time, it's to do with how poorly we are performing in those loses.

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#2961097 30-Aug-2022 11:57

artbloke:

We were heaps better than sound in the first 10 minutes, we cleaned really well on our own ball at the breakdown, so our backs were receiving very quick recycled possession to attack with, also our set pieces were very good.

It's not losses that are the real worry, no team can win all the time, it's to do with how poorly we are performing in those loses.

Yes, I agree, we were very good in the first period of time. To be honest, I think it was considerably more than the 10 minutes. First half we were good, except for discipline. Without the discipline issues, and the loss of mental strength in the last 20, we would have won that match (and it would have been pretty assured at half time).

It's rare to see people build resilience without adversity. People seem to forget what it took to get our AB's to the powerhouse they were in the past.

I have supported Canes captaincy, even though he wasn't my first choice, but after last weekend, where I didn't feel his leadership or his play were of test level, it's hard to continue that support. Having said that, I really don't want Savea getting it. Captaincy is a burden, and as our best and most consistent player, we need him to be that. Sam Whitelock is the other choice, but even that doesn't seem a perfect choice.

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#2961101 30-Aug-2022 12:21

networkn:

artbloke:

We were heaps better than sound in the first 10 minutes, we cleaned really well on our own ball at the breakdown, so our backs were receiving very quick recycled possession to attack with, also our set pieces were very good.

It's not losses that are the real worry, no team can win all the time, it's to do with how poorly we are performing in those loses.

Yes, I agree, we were very good in the first period of time. To be honest, I think it was considerably more than the 10 minutes. First half we were good, except for discipline. Without the discipline issues, and the loss of mental strength in the last 20, we would have won that match (and it would have been pretty assured at half time).

It's rare to see people build resilience without adversity. People seem to forget what it took to get our AB's to the powerhouse they were in the past.

I have supported Canes captaincy, even though he wasn't my first choice, but after last weekend, where I didn't feel his leadership or his play were of test level, it's hard to continue that support. Having said that, I really don't want Savea getting it. Captaincy is a burden, and as our best and most consistent player, we need him to be that. Sam Whitelock is the other choice, but even that doesn't seem a perfect choice.

Fair point, we did go well in first 40 minutes... if we had showed good composure we would've won the match.

I was astonished Foster chose Cane as capt before the squad was even selected - should select what you think would be your best starting 15, as the Captain has to be an incumbent, then pick the best option from those players... from the players we have Whitelock is probably the best option have to go through to the RWC.

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