Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#2969976 19-Sep-2022 09:38

Handle9:The acid test is have you ever seen a decision like that? I have not. Not in the first minute, let alone the last.

If he’s allowed time wasting during the game then he needs to allow it on the last play. There is no way a referee should make an unprecedented decision like that on the last play of the game. If it had been the reverse position

He spent time talking to AU throughout the game about moving things along. It's in the rule book and even if it's not commonly policed (I've seen comments that lower-tier games it's policed at least a little bit, esp in Europe), I'm 100% behind them policing it more.

At the end of the day, given other things that should have been handled differently (Red cards not given), the right result was gotten even if the way it was handled was not to everyone's taste. AU should have had 2 people in the bin for red cards. No chance they would have won under those circumstances.

The result was still open to a different ending. NZ had to win the scrum (hardly a given toward the end of the game), and score the try. AU had their chance to defend and couldn't. It certainly wasn't a given.

networkn

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#2969981 19-Sep-2022 10:00

We have been pretty reasonable on defence this season, Bled1 we let in a number of tries, mostly from the backs coming out of the defensive line from what I could see. Two of the tries we let in, we really shouldn't have. I am wondering how much that was a sign of our backline getting so mixed up due to injuries, IE lack of direction in the midfield.

I was really hoping Argentina would be able to prevent SA from getting the bonus point try, their defence went to Swiss Cheese in that last 15 minutes. Kudos though for scoring the points in the second half, they looked down and out at the 45-minute mark.

GV27

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#2969987 19-Sep-2022 10:13

Time-wasting in late-game penalties is a huge issue, and it happens here too.

It shouldn't be possible to mop-up minutes at a time for a kick for touch or a conversion, but it is.

Hopefully such a high profile bollocking for it will result in some attention and some clarity.

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#2970011 19-Sep-2022 10:26

I was really disappointed to see Rennie suggesting that Darcy Swains tackle on the leg of Tupea shouldn't have even been a yellow.

Disappointed but not that surprised. I hope he never coaches the AB's.

itxtme

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#2970016 19-Sep-2022 10:36

It was a tough call, but the Australians will not have a leg to stand on with their complaint. A lot of comparisons are made to other penalties given in the game. The reality is though this was a kick for touch, that means 50 seconds to kick the ball out is apparently reasonable. People calling for examples where this has happened previously, I call for you to show me examples where the team kicking for touch (not goal - touch!) mucked around for 50 seconds.

What was interesting about that game, the Australians were saying it was their game of the year - for us it was an average game. One of the weakest pairings which ended up happening often was Rieko Ioane and Caleb Clarke. Clarke especially was beaten on defence, and struggled to gel with Ioane. I like Clarke, he offers size and pace. I am concerned though after 3 seasons deep, he is still struggling with some of the basics.

In regards to Raynal, I thought he was a typical NH referee and over pedantic to both teams. NZ has some strong grievances themselves with the first Kallaway try looking forward (why not look at it!?). And Darcy Swain very much deserving of a red.

We will take the win, but plenty to work on.

GV27

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#2970019 19-Sep-2022 10:40

itxtme:

In regards to Raynal, I thought he was a typical NH referee and over pedantic to both teams. NZ has some strong grievances themselves with the first Kallaway try looking forward (why not look at it!?). And Darcy Swain very much deserving of a red.

I feel like this is an issue for match broadcast directors and the IRB to look at. If there is footage of a pass being checked, show us the footage as they check it.

We get the TMO saying "It's fine" on the mic but there should a picture-in-picture match review shot showing what is actually being looked at. Otherwise the narrative around some of this stuff falls apart.

I for one would have loved to see what they checked on broadcast - we didn't get a replay of that one until after the kick had been slotted.

networkn

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#2970020 19-Sep-2022 10:41

GV27:

I for one would have loved to see what they checked on broadcast - we didn't get a replay of that one until after the kick had been slotted.

Ironically, it was the fastest conversion of a try by some margin in the evening, by.... Foley.

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Handle9

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#2970154 19-Sep-2022 15:31

GV27:
itxtme:

In regards to Raynal, I thought he was a typical NH referee and over pedantic to both teams. NZ has some strong grievances themselves with the first Kallaway try looking forward (why not look at it!?). And Darcy Swain very much deserving of a red.

I feel like this is an issue for match broadcast directors and the IRB to look at. If there is footage of a pass being checked, show us the footage as they check it.

We get the TMO saying "It's fine" on the mic but there should a picture-in-picture match review shot showing what is actually being looked at. Otherwise the narrative around some of this stuff falls apart.

I for one would have loved to see what they checked on broadcast - we didn't get a replay of that one until after the kick had been slotted.

The TMO was asking for time to check the first Kellaway try and was ignored.

Handle9

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#2970157 19-Sep-2022 15:34

GV27:
Time-wasting in late-game penalties is a huge issue, and it happens here too.

It shouldn't be possible to mop-up minutes at a time for a kick for touch or a conversion, but it is.

Hopefully such a high profile bollocking for it will result in some attention and some clarity.

It won’t as it was a brain explosion, not a policy change. If it was two NZ conversions would have been rubbed out as taking greater than the allowed 90 seconds.

networkn

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#2970160 19-Sep-2022 15:44

Handle9:

It won’t as it was a brain explosion, not a policy change. If it was two NZ conversions would have been rubbed out as taking greater than the allowed 90 seconds.

It wasn't a brain explosion? What makes you say that? He explained quite clearly to Nic White why he did it. It was a deliberate and intentional act based on the fact he lost patience with Australias time wasting, we he spoke to them multiple times throughout the match for.

90 Seconds to kick a conversion isn't unusual (though 60 seconds is now what is supposed to be), and wasn't attributable to time-wasting, whereas 39 seconds and 3+ warnings quite clearly was time-wasting. Again, would he have taken that long to kick it out if they were behind on the scoreboard?

I don't care if they police these time limits in every instance, it suits the NZ style of play a lot better than it does some other teams.

Handle9

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#2970165 19-Sep-2022 15:50

itxtme:

In regards to Raynal, I thought he was a typical NH referee and over pedantic to both teams.

There were 10 more penalties in the South Africa Argentina game. Guess where the referee was from?

Handle9

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#2970173 19-Sep-2022 15:58

networkn:
Handle9:

It won’t as it was a brain explosion, not a policy change. If it was two NZ conversions would have been rubbed out as taking greater than the allowed 90 seconds.

It wasn't a brain explosion? What makes you say that? He explained quite clearly to Nic White why he did it. It was a deliberate and intentional act based on the fact he lost patience which was time wasting.

90 Seconds to kick a conversion isn't unusual (though 60 seconds is now what is supposed to be), and wasn't attributable to time-wasting, whereas 39 seconds and 3+ warnings quite clearly was time-wasting. Again, would he have taken that long to kick it out if they were behind on the scoreboard?

I don't care if they police these time limits in every instance, it suits the NZ style of play a lot better than it does some other teams.

As I said in my original post I support them cracking down on time wasting. Every side wastes a ton of time having meetings before lineout, adding around with drop outs, taking an age to take kicks to touch.

As you say it’s not unusual for kicks to take longer than the allowable time. It’s normal for teams to waste time and the referee will stop the clock until they play. It is acceptable and not penalised. The time to make a statement isn’t at the end of the game where it’s plays a huge part in deciding the match.

If it had been a reversal of circumstances there would have been justifiable rage at the decision from NZ supporters.

networkn

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#2970180 19-Sep-2022 16:06

Handle9:

As I said in my original post I support them cracking down on time wasting. Every side wastes a ton of time having meetings before lineout, adding around with drop outs, taking an age to take kicks to touch.

As you say it’s not unusual for kicks to take longer than the allowable time. It’s normal for teams to waste time and the referee will stop the clock until they play. It is acceptable and not penalised. The time to make a statement isn’t at the end of the game where it’s plays a huge part in deciding the match.

If it had been a reversal of circumstances there would have been justifiable rage at the decision from NZ supporters.

I disagree. It's unfair for him to allow Australia to wind the clock down and deny us a chance to play, and it's unfair to reverse the penalty and allow a scrum, so the middle ground is to give Australia plenty of time and plenty of warnings before reversing that penalty, which is what he did.

In the earlier part of the match (when he did warn Australia repeatedly, to hurry up) the match wasn't in the balance.

Australia had a chance to win the scrum, or defend their line, which is a lot fairer than we would have gotten had the penalty had not of been reversed. It's no more of a howler than not red-carding Swain and letting Australia play with 14 men for half the match.

Originally, there were howls of anguish from Australians, but as many comments I see one way, I see the other way from Australian supporters, now that additional footage has been released.

The correct result was that NZ won that match IMO.

tdgeek

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#2970269 19-Sep-2022 17:47

Id like to see some rugby. All I read here is excuses why we lost, why we are great, and everything is the refs fault. Pedantic ref. He followed the rules, perhaps blame the rule breakers. Then as is common in modern rugby, milking time. Its not new. Its interesting that it was enforced in a key game at a key time. Hardly consistent. I care little now anyway, the discussion should really about rugby but its about excuses and refs. Not withstanding that consistent decisions are their issue, but its an overall rugby issue. I guess when we hammer the next few easy game in the NI, we will be great again. Its bordering at times like boxing, rarely about the sport. Perhaps the rules need to ne made simpler so the penalties are better shared. use the TMO more, yet thats been commented here a lot as a time waster. Do we want an accurate decision, or not?? Most sports I watch have very active TMO's. F1, golf, tennis, MotoGP. many others

itxtme

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#2970489 20-Sep-2022 13:52

Handle9:

There were 10 more penalties in the South Africa Argentina game. Guess where the referee was from?

Not sure of the relevance, I was referring to the style of refereeing and the number of free kicks and penalties. For the likes of jumping across the line in the lineout etc. Evenly over the top for both teams

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