Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#2996972 16-Nov-2022 08:34

Handle9:

Yeah. Once a wing loses his pace they struggle. It happens to all of them, Ben Smith and Julian Savea are probably the most obvious ones that fell off a cliff.

Jonny May for England has got the same problem at the moment.

Caleb clarke is another IMO that doesn't have the outright pace of Reiko/Reece.

Just saw that sadly the Ref has been swapped out by the IRB for Sundays game vs England. Nic Berry replaced by Mathieu (you use it now) Raynall

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artbloke

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#2996977 16-Nov-2022 08:57

tukapa1:

Thought I had made that clear (good reasons). Those responsible for the player of the match award made the decision she was the best. I would guess, without knowing your pedigree, that they are far more qualified to make that decision. I supported that with the fact that she had been nominated for player of the year. Again I assume those tasked with making those nominations are better placed to do so than you.

There has been extra support in a more recent post (thanks Earbanean) here where Wayne Smith outlines his belief about Demant. Bearing in mind he's been with this team for many, many months, I would be happy to take his opinion over yours. I don't believe you have the same vitriol towards Wayne Smith as you do towards Foster, so would be happy to take Smith's word as accurate.

If you need something else here's a link to an article from The Guardian (hardly a bastion for support of NZ sport);

https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/nov/12/new-zealand-england-womens-rugby-world-cup-final-player-ratings

"Ruahei Demant (capt) Player of the final. Pressured a Harrison kick to go out on the full which led to winning try. Dependable and inspirational leader. 9"

But you keep doing you....

The one's choosing ' player of the match ' are not always right, so you analyse it for yourself, then make a decision.

' Player of the match ' is a about a player making a big impression, Cocksedge was clearly more impressive than Demant in the Final, as reasons given before, Cocksedge also plays a huge part in the leadership group.

Wouldn't get too carried away with Demat's nomination, IRB panels are well known for been pretty inconsistent there... for example, how did Ardie Savea miss out on a nomination ? that's unbelievable !

Woodman is a real x-factor player, she only played for the first 20 minutes, but still made 2 or 3 outstanding runs down the flank... I'd be massively surprised if she didn't get awarded ' player of the year '

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#2996979 16-Nov-2022 09:08

JPNZ:
Handle9:

Yeah. Once a wing loses his pace they struggle. It happens to all of them, Ben Smith and Julian Savea are probably the most obvious ones that fell off a cliff.

Jonny May for England has got the same problem at the moment.

Caleb clarke is another IMO that doesn't have the outright pace of Reiko/Reece.

Just saw that sadly the Ref has been swapped out by the IRB for Sundays game vs England. Nic Berry replaced by Mathieu (you use it now) Raynall

No one has Rieko pace. If he’s not the quickest player in the world he’s close.

Clarke is still rapid. At school he ran a 10.7 second hundred metres. It’s worth having a look at the YouTube video he did for world rugby with Capuozzo, who is extremely quick - ask Australia.

artbloke

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#2996982 16-Nov-2022 09:22

Handle9:

No one has Rieko pace. If he’s not the quickest player in the world he’s close.

Yeah, I agree... BB and Jordon are not too far behind in speed though.

Earbanean

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#2996988 16-Nov-2022 09:57

Handle9:

Akira played ok. Missed some tackles but generally was fine. He’s not going to start but covers 6 and 8 plus his lineout work has been decent.

Barrett isn’t going to 6. Frizzell has that spot and we only have 3 locks that get any game time. When two of those are old you need Barrett at lock. He’s had by far his best year for the All Blacks at lock.

Even if you think Akira played well, which I'm not that sure about, he generally plays well against teams like Scotland and Australia but goes massively missing against brutal teams like the Boks. If we are going to win the Cup, we'll need to go through at least a couple of games of trench warfare against uber physical packs. In my view, he's not the guy to do that at 6.

Right here right now, Frizzell is our best 6. However, again just my view, Barrett at 6 is a great option. He still covers an injury to Whitelock or Retallick from that position and it gets 3 tall physical carriers/cleaners on the field. Improves our lineout as well. Sort of why England often play Lawes at 6. However, I agree we are lacking at lock after those three at test level, so in terms of rest, rotation and injuries, Barrett is basically never free to play 6.

I see centre as a similar situation. I really would like ALB at 13 with Reiko on the wing. But right here, right now, going into a Twickenham test, Reiko should start as that's been our top team over the last couple of months. Definitely Barrett at 12 though.

artbloke

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#2997443 17-Nov-2022 13:18

What has hurt A.Ioane from starting as an incumbent is his inconsistent work rate, he has everything else, really athletic, very fast for a big bloke, top ball skills etc... if he can get his mindset right concerning work rate, he'd definitely be my incumbent 6 for ABs.

Yeah, too late to move R.Ioane from the midfield to wing for the Pommy match - but next year he needs to be playing on the wing to utilize his extreme pace.

Have said before JB is clearly our best midfielder... so other 13's will have to make the most of their opportunities in next year Super Rugby comp to see who's going to partner him, ALB & Havili have the advantage having played for the ABs this year.

networkn

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#2997468 17-Nov-2022 13:53

Like it or not, Reiko is a center, even if he is in most peoples view, a decent winger. I'll be surprised if you see him on the wing unless they have an injury crisis or feel it would work particularly well against a particular opposition.

artbloke

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#2997487 17-Nov-2022 14:18

networkn:

Like it or not, Reiko is a center, even if he is in most peoples view, a decent winger. I'll be surprised if you see him on the wing unless they have an injury crisis or feel it would work particularly well against a particular opposition.

R.Ioane is certainly a much better winger than midfielder - he's played in the midfield for a pretty long time & still struggles with his distribution skills, doesn't have a kicking game, can't get over the advantage consistently like JB does, by far his best asset is pace, so wing is the position that suits him.

Handle9

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#2997516 17-Nov-2022 16:56

networkn:
Like it or not, Reiko is a center, even if he is in most peoples view, a decent winger. I'll be surprised if you see him on the wing unless they have an injury crisis or feel it would work particularly well against a particular opposition.

Yip. He’s been the best outside centre in the country by a long way this year.

Trying to say he’s not a centre after the impact he had against Scotland is daft. His defence alone justifies his selection.

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#2997519 17-Nov-2022 17:26

artbloke:

R.Ioane is certainly a much better winger than midfielder - he's played in the midfield for a pretty long time & still struggles with his distribution skills, doesn't have a kicking game, can't get over the advantage consistently like JB does, by far his best asset is pace, so wing is the position that suits him.

He still has (semi) occasional times where his decision-making, defence (jumping out of the line etc) and distribution are poor, but overall, he is one of the better defensive centers around right now; he has made massive strides in that area. It's probably his biggest asset per minute of play. He is lightning quick, and in a gap very few can catch him, but his opportunities to do that are less in the midfield, and this is why I think people want to see him on the wing.

I am genuinely shocked and puzzled how much time was invested in converting him though, he was absolutely awful at the start, and for quite some time into it. I can't recall a time where more time was spent allowing a player to grow into a role.

If he continues his development, I think he could become an excellent center. We haven't had anyone as good as Conrad Smith since he left. IMO Goodhue was on track before all his injuries, he had the same canny ability to read the game. I hope Reiko can develop that part of his game.

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#2997565 17-Nov-2022 17:28

Handle9:

No one has Rieko pace. If he’s not the quickest player in the world he’s close.

Clarke is still rapid. At school he ran a 10.7 second hundred metres. It’s worth having a look at the YouTube video he did for world rugby with Capuozzo, who is extremely quick - ask Australia.

Defensively, he is *awful*, and it impacts the whole backline. Given we have Reece, I'd be giving Clarke some time 'off' to fix that part of his game.

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#2997566 17-Nov-2022 17:30

Ioane was never awful, you just don’t like him for whatever reason.

Jordie Barrett had a similar amount of time invested in him. It’s worked out rather well.

networkn

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#2997568 17-Nov-2022 17:32

Handle9:

He missed two when he was the forward on the edge trying to get across in cover when the All Blacks were busted. The third was on Duhan van der Merwe and he got the turnover in the same play.

A fair chunk of the missed tackles for the team were on Duhan van der Merwe - he had 107 metres and 11 defenders beaten. The kicking plan was pretty poor, they consistently targeted his wing with a poor chase.

I am not sure why you feel the need to defend it, I never see you defending anyone else the same way.

It's a low number of tackles for a 6 and a high percentage of misses. He can have a bad game and people can rightly criticize him for it, just like everyone else.

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#2997583 17-Nov-2022 17:41

Handle9: Ioane was never awful, you just don’t like him for whatever reason.

Jordie Barrett had a similar amount of time invested in him. It’s worked out rather well.

He really was. You are literally the only person I know who disagrees. You can say it's because I don't like him (which isn't particularly true) , but is that true of everyone else who has criticised him here, in the press, and on most other social media platforms? He got plenty of praise as a winger.

Jordie has had very few standout games for the AB's but I don't necessarily blame him, given he has played fullback, then wing, and now 12. He has played well at 12, but it's pretty early days.

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#2997596 17-Nov-2022 18:35

networkn:

Handle9: Ioane was never awful, you just don’t like him for whatever reason.

Jordie Barrett had a similar amount of time invested in him. It’s worked out rather well.

He really was. You are literally the only person I know who disagrees. You can say it's because I don't like him (which isn't particularly true) , but is that true of everyone else who has criticised him here, in the press, and on most other social media platforms? He got plenty of praise as a winger.

Jordie has had very few standout games for the AB's but I don't necessarily blame him, given he has played fullback, then wing, and now 12. He has played well at 12, but it's pretty early days.

Jordie Barrett is a world class player who you consistently talked about not having the "temperament" for test rugby. He's won games for New Zealand and played extremely consistently for the last 3 years.

This development philosophy has been pretty consistent for 20 years. Pick world class athletes with great work ethic and develop them into their roles. This has happened time and time again.

Nonu is the best example. At the start he had a long way to go, when he finished he was the best 12 New Zealand has ever produced and quite likely the best ever in world rugby.

In 2020 Ioane had more clean breaks and tries than any other centre in Super Rugby as well as 12 try assists. He wasn't awful, he had significant weaknesses, which is quite different. He was doing some things really well and others poorly. As I said at the time he had the potential to become a really good centre and that has proved to be true.

He always had the physical attributes to be a world class centre, he's chipped away at each of his weaknesses as he's gone.

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