Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3082674 31-May-2023 10:30

Nice to see Ryan Crotty back in NZ and on a Rugby field. Big smiles as usual from the man. Don't think he will play, but nice of him to come in as injury cover and train for the Crusaders.

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#3085365 6-Jun-2023 10:33

Rob Penney was appointed head coach of the Crusaders for 2024. It was really between him and Vern Cotter in my mind. I had a slight preference toward Cotter.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300897531/crusaders-appoint-rob-penney-as-replacement-for-outgoing-coach-scott-robertson

"Penney's team of assistants has also been confirmed. Former All Blacks flanker Matt Todd, who was a member of Penney’s squad when he coached Canterbury, joins Tamati Ellison, Dan Perrin and James Marshall on the coaching staff."

Penney joins the Crusaders in August. Should give him plenty of time to settle in.

It's the least experienced coaching team in quite a number of years, along with likely, the least experienced team of players for quite some time. I do wonder, if like the Warratahs he is being given a fairly tough assignment.

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#3088484 11-Jun-2023 14:59

So my predictions of the winners in the weekend played out exactly correctly.

I didn't predict the Chiefs would be taken to the Wire by the Reds. The Chiefs were lucky to escape with the win. If not for the poor kicking of the Reds, it could have ended quite differently.

I must admit to being a bit tired of watching Brad Weber try and milk penalties instead of just playing Rugby. It was nice to see the referee awake to it and actually warn him. Pretty sure Damien MacKenzie was well and truly out when he tried to throw that ball in again at the 68-minute mark. I was impressed that the Reds managed to play mostly pretty well for 80 minutes. Their early kicking game was awful, but they adapted and used their kicking to put the Chiefs under pressure throughout. It didn't really feel like the Chiefs were going to lose at any point though. Anyone who wants to complain about the one eyed Aussie commentators should really have a listen to the Chiefs match commentary team.

I am really not sure if the Crusaders will be able to field a team next week, such is their injury list, they potentially lost another 3 players last night. They had a great start, 3 converted tries in 18 minutes, unsurprisingly they couldn't keep that pace up. They actually finished the match with 13 men due to injury, the first time I've ever seen that happen in a professional match I believe. They still managed to score despite that. Will Jordan isn't quite right just yet I don't think. Braydon Ennor is really playing the house down. Leicester Fainga'anuku had another barnstorming match.

It was disappointing to see the Warratahs barely put up a fight at Eden Park, they barely troubled a pretty messy-looking Blues side. It wasn't quite the way I thought they would send Michael Hooper off.

I didn't get to see the Canes Brumbies game. I thought it would be a road too far for the Canes who have been a bit hot and cold this season.

I can't see the Brumbies troubling the Chiefs too much next week. I think it's quite possible the Blues could topple the Crusaders. I really hope not, it would be nice to keep that unbeaten record intact, but I suspect with a depleted side, there won't quite be enough in the tank.

All 3 matches I watched, high tackles were largely ignored, as well as late tackles. There were a couple of shockers.

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#3088597 11-Jun-2023 17:25

Grrrr. I had done a huge summation of my opinions of the quarter finals, went to post and it disappeared. So here is the short version.

Why did the Chiefs use the same kick tactics that lost them the game in New Plymouth? Once they switched to phase play, they won the game.

The Crusaders game was a procession. Only interest was how many more of their players would get injured.

The Warratahs were like a tire with a slow leak, the longer the game went, the flatter they got.

The Hurricanes were robbed in the last play of the game.

The rules of the game are way too complicated when teams have to spend the first 20 minutes figuring out how a ref is going to apply the rules.

Hopefully, next week will bring 2 good games because compared to the NRL, the games are getting less and less engaging to watch.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#3088612 11-Jun-2023 18:19

Does anyone else feel that the quality of NZ Rugby this year was the lowest in a good long while? There were standout players, but just overall, it felt less spectacular this year.

We may not, but I really hope we have something special in the tank for the tests this year.

Overall I think Australia look pretty average, though strangely, I think they were slightly better this year than last couple.

I saw a stat that Fraser McReight made 28 tackles for the Reds on Saturday night and missed NONE. That is incredible.

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#3088650 11-Jun-2023 20:53

I was sad to learn that Scotty Stevenson lost his wife a year ago. I had no idea. F cancer and the horse it rode in on.

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#3090993 17-Jun-2023 12:58

Never in my wildest dreams given this seasons injuries, would I have hoped or dreamed of that performance against the Blues who were pretty much full strength. If we won at all (which I had serious doubts of) I was expecting it to be painfully close.

The first 40 minutes of Rugby were easily the most dominant of 2023's super rugby season IMO.

It wasn't an ideal way to celebrate poor Reiko's 100th, and last outing in CHCH we spoiled Akiras! Regardless of win or loss I would have hoped the Blues would have shown up with a bit more in the tank than they showed.

There have been some great improvements over the last few years in the Blues, but they still don't really have the self-belief and mental toughness to go from good to great. They have showed both in some matches they have played, esp on defense, but they didn't seem to have anything to climb out of the hole.

I expect it's going to be tough going to put in consecutive performances together for the Crusaders and dominate like that next week, but at least I don't feel the result next week if we end up in Chiefland is a foregone conclusion.

Nothing against the Chiefs, but I'll be cheering on the Brumbies tonight. I expect it to be a considerably easier battle next week at home against them than away against the Chiefs.

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#3091256 17-Jun-2023 21:16

networkn:

Nothing against the Chiefs, but I'll be cheering on the Brumbies tonight. I expect it to be a considerably easier battle next week at home against them than away against the Chiefs.

Yeah, I think you’ll find most of the Waikato would have been hoping the Blues would ‘get up’.

I don’t reckon the Blues had the belief they could win. And so it was proven.

As for tonight’s Chiefs/Brumbies game, what a turgid dogfight it turned out to be. I wondered about some of the choices the Chiefs Captains made. Particularly on attack.

If the Crusaders bring ‘ludicrous mode’ (like they unleashed on the Blues) to FMG stadium next weekend, they are going to be difficult to beat.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#3091338 18-Jun-2023 10:51

If both teams play the way they played this weekend, I expect the Crusaders will win. If they play they have over the whole season as an average, then the Chiefs will *probably* take it out.

For any other team, I'd expect the Chiefs at home to be too much. The Crusaders to my knowledge are the only team to win grand finals away (3 times to date excluding the Brumbies match where a penalty against McCaw was incorrectly given at the death, for which an apology was issued).

To be perfectly honest, whilst I'd love the Crusaders to win, I won't be too upset to come in second considering our injury toll and how we played in the regular season. Even finishing second in pool play compared to where we were midway through the regular season is something.

It would be a cool way to send off Robertson and the group of players like Sam Whitelock and Richie Mo'unga who are leaving this season. It wouldn't surprise me to see the final score determined by MacKenzie or LF.

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#3091826 19-Jun-2023 00:21

A few genuine surprises for me in the squad announcement:

1) Caleb Clarke - Why!? Scored 3 tries all season, his defence is beyond average, he is one-dimensional and hasn't shown much if anything beyond his debut season.

2) Narawa over Stevenson, I'd have swapped them.

3) Dallas McCleod - Genuine bolter. Not me, or anyone I know, nor any pundit made mention of him in their predictions. He has been excellent for the Crusaders, and is versatile. I'd personally have picked Goodhue, but perhaps they are worried he isn't robust enough?

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#3091829 19-Jun-2023 05:31

Maybe Clarke is being given a chance to prove himself before the RWC?

Stevenson is overshadowed by Jordie Barrett, who covers all the same facets and can (usually) kick goals.

I must admit, when they said “McLeod”, I said “Who?”.

Glad to see Cam Roigard get recognised.

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Earbanean

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#3091866 19-Jun-2023 09:04

networkn:

A few genuine surprises for me in the squad announcement:

1) Caleb Clarke - Why!? Scored 3 tries all season, his defence is beyond average, he is one-dimensional and hasn't shown much if anything beyond his debut season.

2) Narawa over Stevenson, I'd have swapped them.

3) Dallas McCleod - Genuine bolter. Not me, or anyone I know, nor any pundit made mention of him in their predictions. He has been excellent for the Crusaders, and is versatile. I'd personally have picked Goodhue, but perhaps they are worried he isn't robust enough?

My guess around answer to 2) is that they now view Will Jordan as a fullback, rather than right wing. If so, then they probably didn't need another fullback who can play wing (Stevenson) and instead went for pure wings. So Fainga'anuku (or Clarke) as power winger on left. Then Telea or Narawa as speed winger on right. I think we'll see the answer to this fairly soon, if Jordan starts at 15 with Barrett on the bench.

I think the answer to 3) is that they know what they're going to get with Goodhue and time in the saddle for NZ XV will do him good. Bringing McLeod into the squad allows them to have a good look at him. I'd be very surprised if he starts in any really important tests (if any) this year. I'm a big fan of McLeod, but in World Cup knock-out games you need experience in positions like midfield. Bolters can and do succeed on the wing (Milner-Skudder), but not midfield (McAlister?).

I think the key point with a lot of these issues, is that this isn't the World Cup squad yet - although it will obviously be pretty close to it. They want to look at some guys and they can use the NZ XV to give some game time. There's also NPC for a few like Blackadder, Moddy etc.

Note, if they give guys like Finau and Narawa one cap off the bench, but don't select them for the World Cup, then people will go crazy about again just giving Island players a cap to lock them in for NZ. e.g. Peter-Gus Sowakula.

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#3091887 19-Jun-2023 09:58

Dingbatt:

Maybe Clarke is being given a chance to prove himself before the RWC?

Stevenson is overshadowed by Jordie Barrett, who covers all the same facets and can (usually) kick goals.

I must admit, when they said “McLeod”, I said “Who?”.

Glad to see Cam Roigard get recognised.

Foster and Co to tend to be wildly generous when letting people 'prove themselves' in my opinion. Clarke had a great breakout season and pretty much nothing since. There are 6 people who contribute to selection decisions, they obviously see something I don't. I guess we will see.

Good point on Stevenson.

To be fair, I only became aware of Narawa in the past few weeks too.

I finally feel like we are in a reasonably good position at half-back. Sadly, no one of Smiths calibre yet, but maybe that takes some time.

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#3091892 19-Jun-2023 10:05

Earbanean:

My guess around answer to 2) is that they now view Will Jordan as a fullback, rather than right wing. If so, then they probably didn't need another fullback who can play wing (Stevenson) and instead went for pure wings. So Fainga'anuku (or Clarke) as power winger on left. Then Telea or Narawa as speed winger on right. I think we'll see the answer to this fairly soon, if Jordan starts at 15 with Barrett on the bench.

I think the answer to 3) is that they know what they're going to get with Goodhue and time in the saddle for NZ XV will do him good. Bringing McLeod into the squad allows them to have a good look at him. I'd be very surprised if he starts in any really important tests (if any) this year. I'm a big fan of McLeod, but in World Cup knock-out games you need experience in positions like midfield. Bolters can and do succeed on the wing (Milner-Skudder), but not midfield (McAlister?).

I think the key point with a lot of these issues, is that this isn't the World Cup squad yet - although it will obviously be pretty close to it. They want to look at some guys and they can use the NZ XV to give some game time. There's also NPC for a few like Blackadder, Moddy etc.

Note, if they give guys like Finau and Narawa one cap off the bench, but don't select them for the World Cup, then people will go crazy about again just giving Island players a cap to lock them in for NZ. e.g. Peter-Gus Sowakula.

Peter-Gus had a great super rugby season, but the jump to test rugby wasn't quite as impressive. I feel it would be cynical to suggest the AB's coaches would select a player to block them from playing internationally for another country. PGS might have been tested for longer if we weren't under so much pressure, especially in the forwards. If it could be proven that was the motivation, I'd expect some resignations as it's a disgraceful way to treat people. I honestly, with what I've seen about Foster, couldn't imagine him being party to such poor treatment of players.

I think you make some great points on the other questions I raised.

Earbanean

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#3091911 19-Jun-2023 10:45

networkn:

Peter-Gus had a great super rugby season, but the jump to test rugby wasn't quite as impressive. I feel it would be cynical to suggest the AB's coaches would select a player to block them from playing internationally for another country. PGS might have been tested for longer if we weren't under so much pressure, especially in the forwards. If it could be proven that was the motivation, I'd expect some resignations as it's a disgraceful way to treat people. I honestly, with what I've seen about Foster, couldn't imagine him being party to such poor treatment of players.

I think you make some great points on the other questions I raised.

Yeah, I agree. I definitely don't think Foster and co would be that cynical, but that's what we always hear when a pacific player gets a small number of test caps. If Finau or Narawa do only get 1 cap off the bench, then I guarantee we'll hear some noise. My view is that even of they do only get 1 or 2 this year, they're still very much in line for more caps going forward.

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