Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#3125484 9-Sep-2023 22:28

SumnerBoy:

100% agree - there were too many wingers to start with and Cane going down showed how light we are on loosies.

Loosies and Locks. Retallick being called up early was a sign of that. Agree we had too many backs.

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networkn

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#3125534 9-Sep-2023 23:55

Congratulations Auckland - Farah Palmer Cup Grand Champions, beating Canterbury at home.

I pretty much expected Canterbury to demolish Auckland with home advantage, but they were slow and inaccurate at the breakdown and with their cleanout, very uncharacteristic of them. They let Auckland get easy metres. Referee was very tolerant of Auckland giving away penalties in the 22.

It was a big clash and Auckland Forwards just muscled up.

tdgeek

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#3125542 10-Sep-2023 06:49

Wombat1:

It’s the World Cup. Emotions are high. Can’t agree with you there that fans should embrace a loss. Obviously you not very into your rugby.

I meant embrace the game as a whole. Losses always happen in sport. You can embrace the game, be self critical about any given loss, and enjoy the wins. A loss will be a learning, but if it raises emotions so that anyone who disagrees causes some of the childish comments seen here, well thats not enjoying sport as a whole, it just becomes overzealous highs and overzealous lows. Lets move on

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#3125548 10-Sep-2023 09:15

I only woke up in time to watch the second half of Eng vs Arg. A red card in the third minute meant Eng played virtually the whole game with 14 players, but you wouldn’t have known it watching the game. The English forwards basically bullied the Argentinians off the park and set the scene for George Ford to kick them to victory. Shades of 2003.

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invisibleman18

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#3125573 10-Sep-2023 11:46

As an England fan that's a huge result. Expected us to get thrashed, especially after a red card in the 3rd minute. I know people might say all points off the boot is "boring" etc but a man down for the whole game all you can do is try and get something on the board when you get in their half. Ford found the spirit of Jonny Wilkinson and those 3 drop goals in a row in the first half put scoreboard pressure on and they started to make mistakes. Some heroic performances out there and so unexpected based on performances this year.

I'm much more a football and cricket fan and don't get all the rules in rugby so I'm but confused about the red card. It looked completely accidental, he didn't play the man in the air and waited for him to land, then if anything the Argentina shoulder hit the English head which then caused an accidental head collision. I get that anything with the head tends to be an automatic red card but how could that collision have been avoided without letting him land cleanly and run away with the ball? The Argentina yellow a few minutes later looked much more deliberate with the guy flying through the air elbow first and taking out the player late. I'm probably biased here (and as I said not a big rugby guy so don't understand all the intricacies) but find it confusing the more accidental one was red and the more deliberate act was yellow.

Anyway huge and unexpected result. Get in!

AxisOfBeagles

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#3125632 10-Sep-2023 13:56

Outstanding game by England. Controlled every aspect of it. Front row dominated (reminiscent of France v NZ, ugh), tactical kicking controlled the field position, and Ford was sublime with those drop goals.

Special mention of young Alex Mitchell. Borthwick took some heat for that selection but the kid was excellent, esp with his tactical box kicks.

Now if only the AB's can find another gear ...

invisibleman18

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#3125660 10-Sep-2023 18:44

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/132909662/rugby-world-cups-red-card-lottery-begins-but-england-still-make-a-statement

Stuff article is just as confused by the inconsistency between the red and yellow cards as I was and says the red should be rescinded.

tdgeek

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#3125663 10-Sep-2023 19:01

invisibleman18: https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/132909662/rugby-world-cups-red-card-lottery-begins-but-england-still-make-a-statement

Stuff article is just as confused by the inconsistency between the red and yellow cards as I was and says the red should be rescinded.

I am too.

When Will Jordan was sent off for 10 mins, ok. Others here are more nuanced than I am for rugby rules. But then, during play, there seemed to be a period of "lets see if yellow is ok or we upgrade to red" W.T.F I feel that TMO's, which sexist in many sports is a great thing. It narrows borderline decisions, and it also hems in the on field ref's rushed feeling in a rapid game. All about getting it right. Lets say Jordan got a red, 35 minutes out, tight game. Then a while later, its a yellow, so the team loses time fielding only 14 men. IMO if a card is issued pause the game, review and assess. Then press play.

itxtme

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#3125701 10-Sep-2023 22:47

invisibleman18: As an England fan that's a huge result. Expected us to get thrashed, especially after a red card in the 3rd minute. I know people might say all points off the boot is "boring" etc but a man down for the whole game all you can do is try and get something on the board when you get in their half. Ford found the spirit of Jonny Wilkinson and those 3 drop goals in a row in the first half put scoreboard pressure on and they started to make mistakes. Some heroic performances out there and so unexpected based on performances this year.

I'm much more a football and cricket fan and don't get all the rules in rugby so I'm but confused about the red card. It looked completely accidental, he didn't play the man in the air and waited for him to land, then if anything the Argentina shoulder hit the English head which then caused an accidental head collision. I get that anything with the head tends to be an automatic red card but how could that collision have been avoided without letting him land cleanly and run away with the ball? The Argentina yellow a few minutes later looked much more deliberate with the guy flying through the air elbow first and taking out the player late. I'm probably biased here (and as I said not a big rugby guy so don't understand all the intricacies) but find it confusing the more accidental one was red and the more deliberate act was yellow.

Anyway huge and unexpected result. Get in!

Its because they are using a framework. Check out the flowchart here -> https://rugbyreferee.net/2021/03/11/new-head-contact-process-unveiled-by-world-rugby/

Specifically in this case.

Head contact occurred
Foul play occurred (Law 9) Dangerous tackles included Head on Head
Yes to High Degree of danger
No to mitigation as he did not allow him time to land before face butting him

If you do not compete in the air, and then tackle a player standing upright and inadvertently smash him in the head with yours you set yourself up for a bad day. The only difference between Will Jordans one was the player landed on his side and no head was involved so a low to medium degree of danger.

Honestly I think the decision is correct. The man in the air needs to be afforded protection as the rules currently allow.

GV27

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#3125717 11-Sep-2023 07:07

itxtme:

Honestly I think the decision is correct. The man in the air needs to be afforded protection as the rules currently allow.

Same. I note that England are apparently hard-done-by every time they have a red, rather than any real introspection on why they commit so many red card offenses. Maybe at some point, they need to ask whether they are the problem, not the rules.

networkn

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#3125755 11-Sep-2023 08:37

invisibleman18: As an England fan that's a huge result. Expected us to get thrashed, especially after a red card in the 3rd minute. I know people might say all points off the boot is "boring" etc but a man down for the whole game all you can do is try and get something on the board when you get in their half. Ford found the spirit of Jonny Wilkinson and those 3 drop goals in a row in the first half put scoreboard pressure on and they started to make mistakes. Some heroic performances out there and so unexpected based on performances this year.

I'm much more a football and cricket fan and don't get all the rules in rugby so I'm but confused about the red card. It looked completely accidental, he didn't play the man in the air and waited for him to land, then if anything the Argentina shoulder hit the English head which then caused an accidental head collision. I get that anything with the head tends to be an automatic red card but how could that collision have been avoided without letting him land cleanly and run away with the ball? The Argentina yellow a few minutes later looked much more deliberate with the guy flying through the air elbow first and taking out the player late. I'm probably biased here (and as I said not a big rugby guy so don't understand all the intricacies) but find it confusing the more accidental one was red and the more deliberate act was yellow.

Anyway huge and unexpected result. Get in!

When England got Red Carded, I was certain they were about to get pasted esp on form. They played smart tactical if not slightly uninspired Rugby, but they deserved that win. Having said that, Argentinas performance was the worst I've seen a team perform at a RWC match in many years. They were atrocious. They barely fired a shot.

The red was due to careless direct contact with the head with force and no mitigating circumstances. Yellow because there was minimal contact with the head but was still foul play.

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#3125756 11-Sep-2023 08:44

itxtme:

Its because they are using a framework. Check out the flowchart here -> https://rugbyreferee.net/2021/03/11/new-head-contact-process-unveiled-by-world-rugby/

Specifically in this case.

Head contact occurred
Foul play occurred (Law 9) Dangerous tackles included Head on Head
Yes to High Degree of danger
No to mitigation as he did not allow him time to land before face butting him

If you do not compete in the air, and then tackle a player standing upright and inadvertently smash him in the head with yours you set yourself up for a bad day. The only difference between Will Jordans one was the player landed on his side and no head was involved so a low to medium degree of danger.

Honestly I think the decision is correct. The man in the air needs to be afforded protection as the rules currently allow.

Yup. Agree with what you've written here. Pretty much spot on.

I prefer the new system to the old. I never enjoyed 15 minutes of sitting around waiting for endless replays and discussions, whilst the momentum of one team or another is extinguished and players get cold. Unless it's beyond doubt (and I'd bet even then), the on-field referee gives a yellow and even if he knows it's red (and to be fair they will have a very good idea since they all undergo the same training). The bunker is really looking for mitigating circumstances. It's less transparent, but probably going to give more accurate results.

JPNZ

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#3125817 11-Sep-2023 09:19

Jeezz that was heartbreaking for Fiji. Wales just survive

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Wombat1

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#3125873 11-Sep-2023 09:52

JPNZ:
Jeezz that was heartbreaking for Fiji. Wales just survive

What a game. I really thought they would have had it. If only they played like that in the first half too then things may have been different.

GV27

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#3125930 11-Sep-2023 12:52

It really does feel like the world has moved on from the Southern Hemisphere game. There's so much more policing of the technical side of things than the things that allow freer-flowing play (like offsides etc).

Tbh I'm not sure we have the forward pack or discipline to do anything but this. It seems like we've shown up for the last RWC we won instead of the RWC that's being played today.

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