Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#3153254 29-Oct-2023 10:42

Handle9:

The team that took their chances better won.

I would suggest this is pretty debatable after that game. The impact of the haphazard refereeing/TMO interventions were far more substantive than anything SA actually did to win the game on their own merit.

If we'd been flat out trounced then you could accept that. But there was no way that this is a case of a 'better' team winning more than a more zealously-officiated one losing, and that's not really good enough for the showpiece game of the game's global tournament.

invisibleman18

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#3153256 29-Oct-2023 10:45

Feels harsh to blame that purely on Barnes. Didn't he let the Cane incident go and was then told by the video ref to go back and give a yellow card? And was then told by the video ref to change it to red?
Still don't understand the head contact issue. We had a red in the 3rd minute against Argentina for an accidental head collision and Curry was then banned for 2 games aswell. Struggling to understand why the Kolisi one was different other than it being a final, but the precedent was already set that they were prepared to give a red card in the final.

Dingbatt

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#3153257 29-Oct-2023 10:46

I don’t think you can blame Wayne Barnes for it either. Sure he missed some bits during the run of play, but the TMO had the biggest impact on the game. It’s rugby’s rules that need serious attention. The fact that the ABs played 15 minutes with 15 players and had 15 minutes where the numbers were again evened (14 a side) was the way Rugby is these days. There was no choice in Cane’s card, that’s the way the laws are applied. In Kolisi’s case, I’m not so sure. Head on head contact has been red carded earlier in the competition. That neither recipient of the ‘foul play’ had to go for an HIA also exposes the farce.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Handle9

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#3153259 29-Oct-2023 10:48

GV27:
Handle9:

The team that took their chances better won.

I would suggest this is pretty debatable after that game. The impact of the haphazard refereeing/TMO interventions were far more substantive than anything SA actually did to win the game on their own merit.

If we'd been flat out trounced then you could accept that. But there was no way that this is a case of a 'better' team winning more than a more zealously-officiated one losing, and that's not really good enough for the showpiece game of the game's global tournament.

It’s not debatable that SA took their chances to win and we didn’t.

Pollard kicked 4 from 4.

We missed two kicks to go ahead.

They took their chances, we didn’t.

Handle9

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#3153260 29-Oct-2023 10:53

Dingbatt:
I don’t think you can blame Wayne Barnes for it either. Sure he missed some bits during the run of play, but the TMO had the biggest impact on the game. It’s rugby’s rules that need serious attention. The fact that the ABs played 15 minutes with 15 players and had 15 minutes where the numbers were again evened (14 a side) was the way Rugby is these days. There was no choice in Cane’s card, that’s the way the laws are applied. In Kolisi’s case, I’m not so sure. Head on head contact has been red carded earlier in the competition. That neither recipient of the ‘foul play’ had to go for an HIA also exposes the farce.

I don’t believe any of the TMO or bunker decisions were incorrect.

The knock on was a knock on. We scored anyway.

The red was clear red, the two foul play yellows were correct as they both had mitigation. The Kolbe yellow was yellow.

The head contact laws are what they are. I don’t like them but they were applied fairly.

networkn

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#3153261 29-Oct-2023 10:55

I am very disappointed in that result.

I never ever want to hear a South African call refereeing biased against them again to be honest.

As I have lamented for years, our discipline was awful, it effectively cost us the game (and has been the difference in pretty much every match we have lost). We had our chances, I feel we were clearly the better team in the second half, our defence was incredible, but playing a team like SA with 14 men for so long, it's nigh on impossible.

I am incredibly proud of our team, we almost had it. That was a massive performance from us in the second half. Not a single scrum penalty, we challenged their set piece, we were good up front. Of all the players to lose, Cane would have been right up there as the worst one to go, along with Ardie.

Gutted, proud, disappointed, annoyed.

Dingbatt

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#3153263 29-Oct-2023 11:00

Handle9:

It’s not debatable that SA took their chances to win and we didn’t.

Pollard kicked 4 from 4.

We missed two kicks to go ahead.

They took their chances, we didn’t.

That the ABs only gave away 4 kickable penalties is something special in itself. Mo’unga’s missed conversion or Barrett’s missed penalty was all that was the difference. Neither kick was easy. That won’t stop either of them having nightmares about it. But remember Beaver’s penalty in 2011 is what won us the cup?

I do believe the ABs need to learn to duck into tackles more.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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TeaLeaf

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#3153264 29-Oct-2023 11:01

invisibleman18: Feels harsh to blame that purely on Barnes.

agreed, even if he was his usual worst.

what i dont get is the direction they taking rugby, I think RL has the HIa down better. You always going to have accidents tecnical or non technical, sometimes its just too soon to get a smidgen of back bent. Nobody deliberately clashes heads, where a head butt is a completely different matter, yet a swinging arm that "glances" doesnt even get a yellow.

Im tiring of the direction Sa style rugby (Eng before them) has taken the game with box kick and defend, rinse repeat, and if you cant defend then just give away a penalty. IMO they should be focusing MUCH harder on deliberate foul play than these HIa's. The running game of rugby is suffering, which after all should be an equal share if not the focus of rugby. You can tell a team is going to roll the box kick dice when they go in with only one bench back specialist.

Congrats to SA.

GV27

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#3153267 29-Oct-2023 11:06

Handle9:

I don’t believe any of the TMO or bunker decisions were incorrect.

The knock on was a knock on. We scored anyway.

The red was clear red, the two foul play yellows were correct as they both had mitigation. The Kolbe yellow was yellow.

The head contact laws are what they are. I don’t like them but they were applied fairly.

It was an appalling drop in the consistency and quality of decision making from the officials. If you think literally not one thing was incorrect then you seem to have watched a different game to all the pundits and ex-players also sharing thier confusion and disappointment. It was a marked step-change in how the games have been played all tournament.

The knock-on was four phases back, not one single phase of play. It should not have been reviewed.

The SA yellow was applied with mitigation, for a high speed tackle at a consistent height (i.e. it was always going to be dangerous). Cane was moving far slower and the player he tackled was not upright. One had a far higher aspect of danger yet the frameworks were not applied consistently within the same game. The frameworks are what they are but they were not applied equally.

The TMO wanted to award a penalty to SA when the ABs were stripped of the ball in the corner. The Touch Judge intervened.

There was also no discussion about the elbow to Cane's head from Estbeth in the tackle or why we were not awarded a penalty try (even though Smith's yellow in a previous game came with one despite us also having a man in the pocket.

GV27

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#3153269 29-Oct-2023 11:09

Handle9:
They took their chances, we didn’t.

Not the extent to trump the major hand-ups from the officials, but then again you seem to think they didn't get anything wrong.

I don't think I'd have a problem if it was a case of the better team won, but the reality is SA were simply 'the other team on the pitch' and were by no means 'better' in a manner more decisive than the craphouse officiating.

Handle9

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#3153271 29-Oct-2023 11:12

GV27:
Handle9:
They took their chances, we didn’t.

Not the extent to trump the major hand-ups from the officials, but then again you seem to think they didn't get anything wrong.

I don't think I'd have a problem if it was a case of the better team won, but the reality is SA were simply 'the other team on the pitch' and were by no means 'better' in a manner more decisive than the craphouse officiating.

Stop whinging. We lost.

It is what it is.

Handle9

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#3153273 29-Oct-2023 11:14

GV27:
[why we were not awarded a penalty try (even though Smith's yellow in a previous game came with one despite us also having a man in the pocket.

Go watch the replay of the Ireland game again old boy. You could not be more wrong.

GV27

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#3153274 29-Oct-2023 11:15

Handle9:

Stop whinging. We lost.

It is what it is.

So having pointed out how ridiculous your "bunker got nothing wrong" claim is, you've just decided to go for childish insults?

Stay classy.

GV27

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#3153275 29-Oct-2023 11:16

Handle9:

Go watch the replay of the Ireland game again old boy. You could not be more wrong.

I think you're the one who needs to spend a bit more time watching the games, sunshine. I'm not the one saying the bunker did nothing wrong and then stamping my feet when people point out how patently incorrect that is.

networkn

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#3153278 29-Oct-2023 11:19

Congrats to SA (it's taken me a little bit to collect myself).

They took their chances, scored enough points, won. History is written.

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