Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#3155444 3-Nov-2023 14:01

Wombat1:

The boks outplayed us

They really didn't, though.

The officials had far more influence than anything the Boks actually did themselves to win that game.

I'll stop 'harping on about the loss' when WR does its job of protecting the integrity of the sport and fronts up over why their TMO effectively went rogue during their showpiece event.

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MikeAqua

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#3155455 3-Nov-2023 14:23

Wombat1:

And our kicking stats were terrible.

We missed enough points to win, there is no denying that. Our last really solid goal kicker had was Carter. It's a critical weakness. Usually, we overcome this by scoring in 5s vs 3s.

If we had a goal kicker as good as Pollard, we would be a much more formidable side.

For a good analysis of the final there is a good ~3 minute video on you tube with Shag's view. In a nut-shell: -

Either team could have won
Some highly debateable calls
Game ruined by refereeing by replay
We risk driving fans away from rugby in droves

I would add to that a very poor pitch at Stade de France which stood up poorly the knockout matches played on it. That detracted significantly from a number of the games and especially the final, where both teams dropped a lot of pill. It must have been some very slippery mud. I understand it's primarily a soccer stadium, so maybe it doesn't have the correct type of pitch for rugby. I'm a Highlanders fan, so obviously I'm spoilt when it comes to pitch quality.

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Wombat1

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#3155473 3-Nov-2023 15:16

MikeAqua:

Wombat1:

And our kicking stats were terrible.

We missed enough points to win, there is no denying that. Our last really solid goal kicker had was Carter. It's a critical weakness. Usually, we overcome this by scoring in 5s vs 3s.

If we had a goal kicker as good as Pollard, we would be a much more formidable side.

For a good analysis of the final there is a good ~3 minute video on you tube with Shag's view. In a nut-shell: -

Either team could have won
Some highly debateable calls
Game ruined by refereeing by replay
We risk driving fans away from rugby in droves
I would add to that a very poor pitch at Stade de France which stood up poorly the knockout matches played on it. That detracted significantly from a number of the games and especially the final, where both teams dropped a lot of pill. It must have been some very slippery mud. I understand it's primarily a soccer stadium, so maybe it doesn't have the correct type of pitch for rugby. I'm a Highlanders fan, so obviously I'm spoilt when it comes to pitch quality.

Finals are always up for the taking by any team. Weaker teams can always punch well above their weight, this is common for all world cup finals. The scores are almost always by just a few points. We have seen it this year in the quarters, and semi's too. Those debatable calls go both ways too.

I don't think there was anything wrong with refereeing the replay, if a knock-on or forward pass was missed and TMO saw it then there is nothing wrong with correcting that. Why should it not call it out? It seems odd that we complain about the rules of rugby, but then we go on to compain when our mistakes are picked up. its a far stretch to go on and say the game was ruined. The final was a fantastic game and would still have been just as much as a fantastic game if we won. It was tight and, stressful like any other world cup final.

I dont think we risk driving fans away, maybe NZ yes but we are a small country and to be honest nobody else cares. Rugby has brought south africans together again this year which is an amazing thing to see, especially for a country that is so separated at the moment. Thousands of new fans in SA have been created.

Handle9

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#3155480 3-Nov-2023 15:27

MikeAqua:
Handle9:

Yes I’ve played rugby. I’m also familiar enough with the HCP to know that Cane didn’t have mitigation. You can try and create your own but the Cane red card and the Kolbe yellow were both really straightforward decisions and consistent with the way rugby is refereed today.

Out of interest: What do you think Cane should have done, given the limited time he had to react?

In other news: I see Barnes has resigned. He'll never again have to referee the ABs who he so clearly dislikes, we'll never have him as a ref again and rugby will be better as a game without him officiating it. Win-win-win.

He's 44 and his other profession is as Barrister, so maybe he'll go back to that.

He has to make an effort to get lower. You can try and make whatever justifications you like but New Zealand had a quarter of the red cards at this World Cup and were tied for 5th on total cards. The rest of the world seems capable of playing without giving away these sort of cards with anywhere near the regularity.

Barnes has retired as the referee with the most World Cup caps and one of the great referees. He’s sick of having his wife being threatened with rape on a weekly basis. He’s a criminal barrister and a partner so I’m sure he’ll manage to feed his kids.

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#3155486 3-Nov-2023 15:35

Handle9:

He has to make an effort to get lower. You can try and make whatever justifications you like but New Zealand had a quarter of the red cards at this World Cup and were tied for 5th on total cards. The rest of the world seems capable of playing without giving away these sort of cards with anywhere near the regularity.

Barnes has retired as the referee with the most World Cup caps and one of the great referees. He’s sick of having his wife being threatened with rape on a weekly basis. He’s a criminal barrister and a partner so I’m sure he’ll manage to feed his kids.

I have no issue with Barnes, I don't feel he was particularly bad in the final, nor do I bear him ill in any way. I think if he and his family have been abused, that's awful and those responsible should be held accountable, but I seriously doubt that was the sole or major reason for the decision.

At 44 he likely didn't have a lot left to prove, and wasn't going to make another world cup. He would likely make more money in his other job.

I wish him well in whatever he does in the future.

Handle9

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#3155489 3-Nov-2023 15:40

GV27:
Wombat1:

The boks outplayed us

They really didn't, though.

The officials had far more influence than anything the Boks actually did themselves to win that game.

I'll stop 'harping on about the loss' when WR does its job of protecting the integrity of the sport and fronts up over why their TMO effectively went rogue during their showpiece event.

They really really did.

The referee didn’t turn the ball over 18 times. The referee didn’t screw up multiple lineouts in the springbok 22. The referee didn’t miss 2 kicks at goal. The referee didn’t have a fly half that continuously threw the ball on the ground. The referee didn’t turn down multiple kickable penalties. The referee didn’t have fullback who couldn’t catch a high ball. The referee didn’t kick to keep the ball in play when South Africa couldn’t win a lineout.

The referee did issue twice as many penalties against South Africa than New Zealand.

Handle9

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#3155492 3-Nov-2023 15:44

networkn:
Handle9:

He has to make an effort to get lower. You can try and make whatever justifications you like but New Zealand had a quarter of the red cards at this World Cup and were tied for 5th on total cards. The rest of the world seems capable of playing without giving away these sort of cards with anywhere near the regularity.

Barnes has retired as the referee with the most World Cup caps and one of the great referees. He’s sick of having his wife being threatened with rape on a weekly basis. He’s a criminal barrister and a partner so I’m sure he’ll manage to feed his kids.

I have no issue with Barnes, I don't feel he was particularly bad in the final, nor do I bear him ill in any way. I think if he and his family have been abused, that's awful and those responsible should be held accountable, but I seriously doubt that was the sole or major reason for the decision.

At 44 he likely didn't have a lot left to prove, and wasn't going to make another world cup. He would likely make more money in his other job.

I wish him well in whatever he does in the future.

He and his wife have publicly commented about it previously and his retirement statement referenced that he wanted to work on supporting referees and their families. It’s vile.

networkn

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#3155494 3-Nov-2023 15:47

He and his wife have publicly commented about it previously and his retirement statement referenced that he wanted to work on supporting referees and their families. It’s vile.

It is. Hopefully, he can get some peace and quiet.

Handle9

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#3155587 3-Nov-2023 18:53

networkn:

He and his wife have publicly commented about it previously and his retirement statement referenced that he wanted to work on supporting referees and their families. It’s vile.

It is. Hopefully, he can get some peace and quiet.

I think it's worth sharing this again. It was after the France South Africa match in Marseille last year when he sent Dupont and Peter Steph du Toit off. Rassie was still on his public crusade against refereeing, which I am thankful he has finally walked back from. I believe that Ben O'Keefe has had similar problems after his playoff games and of course what happened to Nick Berry during the Lions was awful.

Go to 16:12

Handle9

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#3155593 3-Nov-2023 19:36

GV27:

The two issues for Barnes that really need some help explaining are the first yellow (which, if not intentional as per the red card review, shouldn't have been a yellow at all)

Intent is not a requirement for a yellow card for foul play, it only has to be reckless.

Edit: There’s very rarely intent in foul play anymore. More often than not it’s guys getting it wrong. I feel that way about all three foul play cards - there was no intent to commit the offence but they were reckless and suffer the consequences.

TeaLeaf

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#3155890 4-Nov-2023 18:02

Handle9:

He and his wife have publicly commented about it previously and his retirement statement referenced that he wanted to work on supporting referees and their families. It’s vile.

Yeh, vile which way ;-p

Fact is he made 3 definite mistakes which cost us 9 points. But as somebody pointed out, he didnt turn the ball over how many times.

They got it wrong but we should have won it regardless. I think thats how anyone not invested in either team would see the facts. along with Sa not getting pinged enough for poor form fouls and bad sportsmanship, ie Faf should have turned over a free kick and the clock turned back on him not feeding the scrum so he could get the next feed to end the game.

I have to say he is the worst of rugby running around imo.

Well looks like Kiwis coming good on their word about turning up for the abs as fans themselves, 12-0 at half time and boy they have intensity off the charts. Very interesting second half about to start, worth watching even if impartial to RL.

JPNZ

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#3156575 6-Nov-2023 09:24

I think super rugby squads are announced this week?

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#3156586 6-Nov-2023 09:39

JPNZ:

I think super rugby squads are announced this week?

They are. I see both Crotty and Leigh Halfpenny the fullback for Wales for the longest time have joined on with Crusaders. It will be interesting to see how much game time they get. Matera was still relatively young when he joined.

TeaLeaf

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#3156587 6-Nov-2023 09:41

Rassie Erasmus to "formerly" take Sa headcoach role. I wonder what social media delights will come of it.

networkn

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#3156588 6-Nov-2023 09:43

TeaLeaf:

Rassie Erasmus to take Sa headcoach role

Heh, as if he wasn't already. I was really hoping he was going to disconnect from SA Rugby. I lost a huge amount of respect for him over his anti refereeing shenanigans.

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