Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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#3270517 11-Aug-2024 12:34

Dingbatt:

Gus Gardner had a good night with the whistle. I’m glad common sense prevailed in reviewing the possible yellow card, despite the TMO trying to force his POV.

Agreed. All rugby contacts are going to be inherently dangerous if that collision becomes card-able. Not every play involving some head contact should be a sending-off by default. Hell, every scrum would result in six yellows straight off the bat.

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networkn

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#3270518 11-Aug-2024 12:43

Feels a little rough to blame that try on Sevu. It's a tactic he (and others) have used, with obvious approval in many past games, with pretty reasonable success. The only thing was there was no-one there to grab the ball. It's hardly going to be an exact science.

Defensively, they aren't gelling right now. It will take time to trust the player next to you and find a defensive structure.

It's the start of the cycle, we are going to experiment, chop and change and build, we don't need to be the finished product right now.

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#3270524 11-Aug-2024 13:02

GV27:

We're missing players picked on form.

ROFL. I am sure I've heard you say that for as long as I've known you, including during Hansens era. If we picked soley on (super rugby) form we would be even worse off. Teams aren't just a matter of putting 23 good players together and hoping for the best, it's a matter of finding 32 who work well together, train together, have the right attitude. Sometimes it's not about the player, but what the player allows the other players to do. Cane is a good example of that. It's about developing players with potential.

You conventiently seemed to forget what happened when the AB's were picked before the SR final a year or two back. It was a pretty grim. Not many Aucklanders met their Super Rugby form at the next highest level.

If we picked on form, then Carter wouldn't have gone to the RWC 2015, Nonu would almost never have made the AB's. They certainly aren't the only ones.

You seem to be very excited that Auckland won a SR final, that's fine, but for the same reason that you'd never pick a full team of Crusaders, you'd not do the same to another one other team.

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#3270606 11-Aug-2024 15:14

Ah yes, the era when Auckland became a dumping ground for players from other clubs which screwed up our pipeline of inside backs, I remember it well. Meanwhile we fed a bunch of talent into the Tasman Makos out of our schoolboy competitions, and our senior players didn't get the same leniency as others on sabbaticals so they ended up just leaving for good. I remember it well.

And the argument with Nonu was that at least he would play out of his skin as soon as he put on a black jersey. All we're getting from these guys is the same performances they turned in during Super Rugby season, which was average to begin with.

We're getting the performances we can expect from the players that got picked, so I suppose I can't hold that against them, but the reality is the Blues have had the best defense and martialing in the competition and keep getting overlooked for players that haven't even come close to it. That's going to get harder and harder to justify on any basis that isn't provincialism the longer it goes and the more it costs us games.

Honestly, to be a bit more constructive, I'd put Sotutu into the loosies, I'd bench Blackadder (whatever they think they see there isn't there) - I'd bring Christie back into the fold (neither of his games were as bad as anything we saw last night). I'd be thinking long and hard about Ricky Riccitelli. Something in that forward pack isn't right. Start at the front row and start dropping in different players until it clicks. And I'd be looking at bringing as much of that defensive muster into the fold for the South African games as possible.

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#3270614 11-Aug-2024 16:05

networkn:

Feels a little rough to blame that try on Sevu. It's a tactic he (and others) have used, with obvious approval in many past games, with pretty reasonable success. The only thing was there was no-one there to grab the ball. It's hardly going to be an exact science.

It was a sequenced kick from an exit. Teams that play a slap back arrange their chase behind the ball to catch the ball from a slap back. Either he's gone and done it on his own, in which case it's very much on him to put a ball on the ground in his own half, or it's a team/coaching failure for not having a properly organized chase.

This wasn't from open play, it was a deliberate 3 play sequence from a restart.

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#3270616 11-Aug-2024 16:09

networkn:

Handle9:

It's 4 games in a row with terrible exits, poor lineouts and early scum engagements. We've managed to take a strong forward pack and make it mediocre. We don't look well coached at the moment.

I hope Ethan Blackadder sends Angus Gardiner a Christmas card. He was extraordinarily lucky not to get a yellow card.

Agree on the yellow, agree on the terrible exits.

We got 14/14 of our own lineouts until they changed hooker (quite the contrast from 2 matches ago).

Our replacements didn't add impact, if anything they removed it.

The lineout conceded a try from a very simple maul with a bit of tempo and movement. Of those 14 wins one resulted in a maul turnover and another was an absolute shambles that was won somehow.

Our lineout looks really simplistic compared to other teams, we don't have the variety of jump or throws.

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#3270617 11-Aug-2024 16:12

Dingbatt:

The big thing to me was they still seem to be playing SuperRugby style rugby, possibly made worse by their previous opponent also playing that style of rugby. I don’t think they respected Argentina enough to play Test Match rugby from the get-go.

There's one coach with international experience in the group and they are all from the Robertson school. They don't know anything different to Super Rugby.

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#3270619 11-Aug-2024 16:15

itxtme:

Handle9:
We don't look well coached at the moment.

I hope Ethan Blackadder sends Angus Gardiner a Christmas card. He was extraordinarily lucky not to get a yellow card.

Razor is not going to polish a turd, work needs to be done for sure. Imagine inheriting a team of wingers, its going to take time. ALB running out of the line cost us big time. Reece smacking the ball back cost us big time. Dmack throwing the ball in goal cost us big time.

This is not the first time Dmac has struggled under pressure. The difference today versus the test prior was the bench had little effect and thats not the AB way.

And the yellow was no worst than the Ardie contact. At least he was consistent.

BB to bench, he is best from here. Hopefully NZRU can get Mo'Ongua back

Blackadder made direct head contact from an upright position. That has been consistently refereed as a yellow card.

The contact on Savea was secondary contact so quite different under the HCP.

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#3270977 13-Aug-2024 11:08

Saturday was seriously disappointing. It was almost like a first test of the year. I guess a lot of the team hadn't played for a a few weeks, but they're professionals and should be better than that. It'll be interesting how we respond. I'm pretty confident we'll win and win well at Eden Park. The D line organisation should be better and the exit plays also.

The selections will be interesting. I don't think they'll hit the panic button, but in my view some changes are still required - and arguably should have been made last week. I think the new midfield deserves more time and same goes for DMac at 10. Even if Mo'unga does come back before the World Cup, 2011 tells us we need a number of truly test experienced 10s in the squad.

I think we have to change halfback. Our game depends on bullet passes from rucks and TJ doesn't give that. Never has. I would also change wings. Clarke deserves a start for his aerial ability and gives the power wing style contrast. I'd move Telea to right wing, drop Reece. We need to start Jordan at fullback and see what he can do. For now, I think Barrett is super sub again.

Lastly, our loose forward trio still isn't right. We need a big enforcer blindside like Kaino. Frizzell, had finally filled that role, but Finau didn't take his chance. I seriously think they'll try to get Frizzell back from Japan by next year. I reckon Blackadder, like Jacobsen, is ideal to cover all 3 spots from the bench, but isn't a test 6. Do they give Finau another chance? Do we try a lock at 6 (Vai'i or Barrett when he's back)? Do they move Savea to 7 and go all in with Sititi at 8? Does Cane come back? The loosies is one area where I really don't know what I think we should do.

One positive. Darry was impressive and shapes as a key part of the pack going forward.

GV27

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#3270981 13-Aug-2024 11:18

Why are people so averse to the idea of calling up Sotutu? The excuse for not including him was work-rate, and I can't remember an All Blacks game with so few ruck-time tunrovers. At least we'd bolster our defensive capability by an order of magnitude.

Darry is the first of the new-brood that I'd say has really made a case for himself. He's sure as hell there more on merit than some of the established names, who have now failed to fire against three separate teams. First Game jitters doesn't wash anymore.

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#3271030 13-Aug-2024 11:26

GV27:

Why are people so averse to the idea of calling up Sotutu? The excuse for not including him was work-rate, and I can't remember an All Blacks game with so few ruck-time tunrovers. At least we'd bolster our defensive capability by an order of magnitude.

We could have a theoretical discussion about Sotutu. However, the reality of this week's selections is we have an existing squad or 46 players to choose from. That's not going to change unless there are injuries.

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#3271080 13-Aug-2024 13:35

networkn:

What we are missing among other things, is the self belief that the AB's had under Richie.

that came from learning from repeated capitulation at successive world cups and a strong base of cream Crusaders players at their peak.

GV27

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#3271139 13-Aug-2024 16:37

Batman:

that came from learning from repeated capitulation at successive world cups and a strong base of cream Crusaders players at their peak.

Yep. Who would have thought selecting from a high performing Super Rugby team would help build a base for a high performing All Blacks team.

We should see Clarke back but decent wings are no good if your midfield can't execute or kick tactically and your front row has enduring permission to be continuously AWOL for the entire game.

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#3271141 13-Aug-2024 16:42

GV27:

We should see Clarke back but decent wings are no good if your midfield can't execute or kick tactically and your front row has enduring permission to be continuously AWOL for the entire game.

Interesting fact. In one of the English tests (can't remember which one) Reiko Ioane didn't do a single pass to either of the wingers. Yes, the English were using an umbrella defence, but still...

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#3271162 13-Aug-2024 17:21

Earbanean:
GV27:

We should see Clarke back but decent wings are no good if your midfield can't execute or kick tactically and your front row has enduring permission to be continuously AWOL for the entire game.

Interesting fact. In one of the English tests (can't remember which one) Reiko Ioane didn't do a single pass to either of the wingers. Yes, the English were using an umbrella defence, but still...

He got the ball a total of 6 times, and they were all in traffic.

It’s good to have the intent to get the ball to the wing but if you are throwing and hoping you get a 60 metre interception or a turnover from a hospital pass, both of which happened on the weekend.

There’s lots of talk about the backs but the fundamental problem on attack is dog crap carrying and cleans. We won the gain line 34% on the weekend and frequently got marched backwards. We were the worst out of the 4 teams on the weekend at going forward.

Against Argentina last year they ran double unders starters plays consistently, smashed over the gain line and had a roll on immediately. McKenzie rolled around the corner for a walk in try later on in the game as they were keying so hard or Jordie and Rieko.

One of Jordie Barrett’s key skills is rolling over the gain line and he’s not being used that way at all.

We have a big balance issue without playing Tuipolotu, Barrett and Finau, Ardie is the only plus tight carrier in the forwards. It is arguably why Sotutu should have been in the squad to give a big carrier as an option in the loose forwards.

Savea is being overused as a carrier, I really don’t understand why he’s being used so much off starters when that’s one place you can use other players.

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