Geekzone Rugby (Union) Discussion Thread

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Networkn
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#1367220 15-Aug-2015 22:49

Technofreak:
networkn: DC played well, He had the one big miss chasing the ball, but it's just as well since if he got it, they wouldn't likely have scored that try. (I think I heard it suggested he decided it was better to not get it and let someone behind him grab it, it was a pretty weak attempt, so it's possible.

Actually I think he overshot the ball on purpose. He straddled it and missed it so cleanly, leaving it waiting for the following player. If he'd secured the ball that's where the play would have broken down with the covering Aussie player tackling DC. The ball would not have been recycled fast enough to keep the momentum going.

When I first saw it happen I thought he'd messed it up, but after watching the replay I tend to think it was planned.

Yup I have rewatched it. Was intentional and pretty damn impressive.

I thought Ben Smith wasn't quite as consistent tonight. I think people have worked out how dangerous he is. I also don't think he is as good at Full back as he is at Wing. Savea is still struggling.

I am concerned that Savea just runs straight and has no side step. I am not sure but he may be carrying an injury or something else isn't quite right.

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#1367226 15-Aug-2015 23:01

Savea has always needed time to accelerate. he is big!

itxtme

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#1367227 15-Aug-2015 23:01

NMS looked excellent, he looks like he has the goods at international level, and no I won't apologize for expecting him to prove himself.

Agreed, not necessary. But I am happy to accept one for not wanting to give him the opportunity to prove himself... twice...

DC looking good when he attacks the line, makes him less predictable and creates the defensive need to cover him properly. Great goal kicking too. I am a little concerned that nobody else has much game time as AB 10 this year bar Sopoaga.. Fair concern I think given our history in RWC.

I wont talk about the good players - there was many. I will mention the concerns

Aaron Smith, form not there still - I believe it will return, he looks nearly there and then has a brain explosion. TJP was no better
Kieran Read, off the pace, looking foward to his stats, his ball carrying was underwhelming
Feketoa, heaps of mistakes, is Crotty the safe number 2 option????

Time to name your squads. I will mull over mine overnight.

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#1367232 15-Aug-2015 23:30

networkn:

I thought Ben Smith wasn't quite as consistent tonight. I think people have worked out how dangerous he is. I also don't think he is as good at Full back as he is at Wing. Savea is still struggling.

i think you need a new tv or a pair of glasses. Ben Smith was fine. or from what you're saying perhaps NMS would turn it on better, but Ben played a good game, just that he didn't need to do too much exhibition, which could be a good thing. if the last man is caught in a ruck and got turned over, that is very dangerous

Handle9

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#1367234 15-Aug-2015 23:34

Clearly a much better performance this week than last week. At the stadium last week it was so clear that the Wallabies were flying up at 2nd 5/8 and weren't worried about Carter running. As soon as he started running the game was very different. The wallabies weren't able to slide out which created much more room for the guys outside him. We also made our backline tackles, which was a clear contrast to last week.

In the last three games some of the younger players have made huge strides, which is vital for the World Cup. If I was Dagg and Messam I'd be very concerned as there is real pressure there. Ben Smith has made a big difference with his direct running and is providing a punch from the back which has been missing. On form the back three is Ben Smith, NMS and Charles Piatau, although I'm guessing they'll give Savea every opportunity to front.

I don't rate Crotty but Fekitoa is a bit scary off the bench. When he comes on he's so pumped up he charges out of the line on defence. He can make a big impact but it is a roll of the dice. It'll be a very interesting team to be named that's for sure.

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#1367235 15-Aug-2015 23:35

itxtme:
Aaron Smith, form not there still - I believe it will return, he looks nearly there and then has a brain explosion. TJP was no better
Kieran Read, off the pace, looking foward to his stats, his ball carrying was underwhelming
Feketoa, heaps of mistakes, is Crotty the safe number 2 option????
I will mull over mine overnight.

AS - i didn't see too much wrong, but he wasn't spectacular. but the Wallabies were pretty much competing at every ruck.

KR - are you kidding? he was doing his job damn fine.

Traditionally our centres have been problematic. So the MN-CS partnership is the only one that works. any other combo and you are just hoping for defensive solidity rather than gaining on the advantage line.

tdgeek

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#1367293 16-Aug-2015 09:33

Hammerer: Now both teams have had consecutive games on both the back- and front-foot so it has probably given more clarity to the selectors on both sides of the Tasman. It also showed the benefits of home advantage/reputation.

I expect that Milner-Skudder and Vito have reserved spots. Good for Hurricanes fans except that Cory Jane probably won't get another chance unless he's stellar in the next few weeks.

Folau played so consistently - I wish Sonny Bill had done the same in at least one recent game. Cooper played OK considering that the Wallabies were back-pedalling - and as we saw last week it is real easy to get sent off while defending. They sure need Pocock but he's not sufficient by himself.

That does count, but to me, they played an entirely different game when they looked great, running the ball, finally. They looked pretty ordinary in the first 15 as well. Apart from taking some offered opportunities in the first half, it really took off when they began,m for the first time in 1.5 games to play the running game.

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tdgeek

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#1367294 16-Aug-2015 09:34

joker97:
Hammerer: Now both teams have had consecutive games on both the back- and front-foot so it has probably given more clarity to the selectors on both sides of the Tasman. It also showed the benefits of home advantage/reputation.

I expect that Milner-Skudder and Vito have reserved spots. Good for Hurricanes fans except that Cory Jane probably won't get another chance unless he's stellar in the next few weeks.

Folau played so consistently - I wish Sonny Bill had done the same in at least one recent game. Cooper played OK considering that the Wallabies were back-pedalling - and as we saw last week it is real easy to get sent off while defending. They sure need Pocock but he's not sufficient by himself.

the Aussies haven't got depth, and the planets will almost have to line up in a row for them to get through their group unscathed. and then for the bruising knock-outs.

the ABs have depth, but will need to play well to get through the SF and the Final if they win the SF. Unless they face France in the QF, you can assume they will be in the SF. If they face france, anything can happen. At least it's not at Twickenham.

The aussies face up with Fiji, ENG, and Ireland, ouch

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#1367296 16-Aug-2015 09:36

joker97:
tdgeek: It was a game of three halves. Started scrappy, gave the ball away. Then looked good occasionally. Then gave away the style of the first half and last weekend and started running the ball, growing in confidence, helped by Oz errors. So who decided the game style last week and the first half? The second half, was the running game we always play. It was like 3 games on 3 different occasions. But, back on track.

Michael Cheika

I as meaning AB's. Last week, didn't run the ball, first half kicked it away, second half, ran the ball as they normally do.

tdgeek

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#1367298 16-Aug-2015 09:40

networkn: DC played well, He had the one big miss chasing the ball, but it's just as well since if he got it, they wouldn't likely have scored that try. (I think I heard it suggested he decided it was better to not get it and let someone behind him grab it, it was a pretty weak attempt, so it's possible.

NMS looked excellent, he looks like he has the goods at international level, and no I won't apologize for expecting him to prove himself.

Nonu is in the form of his life! TJP makes some really dumb decisions sometimes, it drives me crazy. The decision to kick was horrible.

RM got a fitting farewall as did the rest of our Living Legends! Amazing really. I wish I had been able to watch the post match stuff involving him.

I very much enjoyed Coopers brain dead decision making, but like has already been said, you can't play well as flyhalf if you are not getting forward momentum and it showed tonight.

I Was particularly pleased to see us put on crushing pressure when they lose Cooper, 21 points! Much more like I expected.

The forwards for us fronted MASSIVELY, perhaps a little hesitant initially but boy did they warm to their work.

I was hoping to see them get to 50, but we lost momentum somewhat near the end.

All in all a pleasing night to be a NZ Rugby Fan. Hopefully it will settle the nerves of some here.

It will! Tells me that last week, and most of last nights first half were not our players, but as far as I can see, our coaches making the wrong call on game style. Go back to running the ball, allows our skill set to be used, and we open up gaps, apply pressure. And moving forward, places pressure on our opposition before the first whistle.

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#1367335 16-Aug-2015 11:01

What I saw last night was the Dan Carter of old. Behind an ascendant forward pack he had time to put on the moves and it is the first time in a very long time that I have seen him running and going into contact where he doesn't fear being hurt. Perhaps that is because he no longer has the weight of a nation's expectations on his shoulders. Remember the outcry when he got injured at the last world cup? A tweak of game plan so that the option of kicking behind the Wallaby rush defence meant there were less rushed offloads this week.
Savea's quiet game was as much due to the Aussies having done their homework on him and not letting him have space as any other reason. Milner-Skudder is a relative unknown to them and when you look at his form in the Super XV he is very difficult to predict and defend against.
High ball to Cooper defending deep = Good.
High ball to Folau defending deep = Not so good. The ABs need to think carefully about going to the air anywhere near the ex-AFL star as Perenara's cross kick near the end of the game proved.
Vito had a great game and has probably booked a ticket to the RWC. He was the right fit for that game, more athletic and fast than the confrontational and muscled up approach of either Kaino or Messam.
The Whitelock/Retallick combo is obviously the one that works best and the go forward those two provide cannot be underestimated.
So much more I could say but the biggest chuckle I got last night was when the commentators got apoplectic about the "guy in the beany" in the middle of the fracas, when he had a blue bib with WATER written on it and it was obviously Liam Messam. And no he shouldn't have been there but that's the macho rugby culture for you.

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networkn

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#1367380 16-Aug-2015 12:17

Dingbatt: What I saw last night was the Dan Carter of old. Behind an ascendant forward pack he had time to put on the moves and it is the first time in a very long time that I have seen him running and going into contact where he doesn't fear being hurt. Perhaps that is because he no longer has the weight of a nation's expectations on his shoulders. Remember the outcry when he got injured at the last world cup? A tweak of game plan so that the option of kicking behind the Wallaby rush defence meant there were less rushed offloads this week.
Savea's quiet game was as much due to the Aussies having done their homework on him and not letting him have space as any other reason. Milner-Skudder is a relative unknown to them and when you look at his form in the Super XV he is very difficult to predict and defend against.
High ball to Cooper defending deep = Good.
High ball to Folau defending deep = Not so good. The ABs need to think carefully about going to the air anywhere near the ex-AFL star as Perenara's cross kick near the end of the game proved.
Vito had a great game and has probably booked a ticket to the RWC. He was the right fit for that game, more athletic and fast than the confrontational and muscled up approach of either Kaino or Messam.
The Whitelock/Retallick combo is obviously the one that works best and the go forward those two provide cannot be underestimated.
So much more I could say but the biggest chuckle I got last night was when the commentators got apoplectic about the "guy in the beany" in the middle of the fracas, when he had a blue bib with WATER written on it and it was obviously Liam Messam. And no he shouldn't have been there but that's the macho rugby culture for you.

Heh I must have missed that, but seriously the water boy in the fight? Just further supports my comments about him being a hot head and shouldn't be taken to the RWC

Disagree about Vito over Kaino however, but I think both would be good. If I had to pick one, it would be Kaino, though this doesn't take away anything from Vito having an outstanding night. The difference was the go forward, he is better in that situation though I think Kaino is more physical in defense and if we have a tough night at the office, I'd rather than someone better on Defense.

Folau is excellent I agree.

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#1367382 16-Aug-2015 12:21

tdgeek:
networkn: DC played well, He had the one big miss chasing the ball, but it's just as well since if he got it, they wouldn't likely have scored that try. (I think I heard it suggested he decided it was better to not get it and let someone behind him grab it, it was a pretty weak attempt, so it's possible.

NMS looked excellent, he looks like he has the goods at international level, and no I won't apologize for expecting him to prove himself.

Nonu is in the form of his life! TJP makes some really dumb decisions sometimes, it drives me crazy. The decision to kick was horrible.

RM got a fitting farewall as did the rest of our Living Legends! Amazing really. I wish I had been able to watch the post match stuff involving him.

I very much enjoyed Coopers brain dead decision making, but like has already been said, you can't play well as flyhalf if you are not getting forward momentum and it showed tonight.

I Was particularly pleased to see us put on crushing pressure when they lose Cooper, 21 points! Much more like I expected.

The forwards for us fronted MASSIVELY, perhaps a little hesitant initially but boy did they warm to their work.

I was hoping to see them get to 50, but we lost momentum somewhat near the end.

All in all a pleasing night to be a NZ Rugby Fan. Hopefully it will settle the nerves of some here.

It will! Tells me that last week, and most of last nights first half were not our players, but as far as I can see, our coaches making the wrong call on game style. Go back to running the ball, allows our skill set to be used, and we open up gaps, apply pressure. And moving forward, places pressure on our opposition before the first whistle.

As i said, we're already in the SF unless france does a france and losses top spot, then our real test will be from the QFs, which may not be a bad thing.

Hold your excitement till October

tukapa1

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#1367534 16-Aug-2015 17:48

After a bumbling first 15 minutes the AB's put on a much better show last night.

I have to admit I was expecting the worst during that first 15....

Woodcock and Franks for me still need some improvement. While our scrum held it's own, it didn't do much else. I would have expected the front row to want to make a statement last night.

Hopefully Dane Coles has silenced his many critics after his performance last night. He will always have the ability to do something stupid, but I feel he's worked well on his discipline.

Retallick and Whitelock are streets ahead of anybody else in the second row, so much so the management team may take an extra loose forward and improvise with the locking position if they need to.

The back row all had good games. Vito prospered from a much better performance. For me Kaino is still the man for the 6 jersey, but Vito looked good last night.

Aaron Smith had a pretty good game with a few black marks. His pass is crisp and gets the backline off on the right track.

DC had a very good game last night. I've been lamenting the fact he has not been running at the line, and last night showed why it is so important for the midfield that he attack the line on occasions. The Aussie midfield had to hold back a bit rather than rushing up.

Nonu and Smith showed the results of playing so many times together. Both were outstanding with huge workloads.

Savea is still getting up to speed, but some game time against the minnows at the RWC will do him the world of good and let him get his confidence back.

Ben Smith had a very good game at the back. Positionally he was excellent and he is so solid that I don't have the jitters at all when we are defending.

While giving DC all this game time has resulted in him finding some form again, it has meant our back up first five eights are all going to be underdone going into the RWC. They will have to share the pool play around the back up first fives to give them same game time and let them build confidence. This will probably suit Hansen though as I don't expect DC to get much game time in pool play.

My pick for likely RWC squad (in no particular order);

Prop: Wyatt Crockett, Owen Franks, Ben Franks, Nepo Laulala, Tony Woodcock
Hooker: Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu, Codie Taylor
Locks: Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano
Loosies: Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Victor Vito, Liam Messam
Halfbacks: Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara
First Five: Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Colin Slade, Lima Sopoaga
Midfield: Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Malakai Fekitoa, Sonny Bill Williams
Outside backs: Ben Smith, Julian Savea, Charles Piutau, Nehe Milner-Skudder

I don't know if they will take another halfback - the next cab off the rank is too far back I believe. They can always bring somebody over if there is injury. They have already shown they are happy to have Slade cover halfback.

They will use one of the loosies to cover lock if needed and have also shown they are happy to do that.

If they take a 17/14 split then SBW will get in by default.

They have Barrett for cover at fullback if needed. He has experience playing there for the AB's.

I think if there were some good halfback/lock options then the squad may have looked a little different, but the rest are just too far off the pace I believe.

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#1367543 16-Aug-2015 17:56

i believe they will take 3 hookers and 3 halfbacks

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